IFR Currency for Jack - KSMX KPRB KSBA (Full ATC)

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waynemcc999
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IFR Currency for Jack - KSMX KPRB KSBA (Full ATC)

Post by waynemcc999 »


We’re flying today with Jack in his SR22T as he shoots a localizer backcourse, an LPV, and a non-precision GPS approach, plus a hold... all toward his IFR currency. As safety pilot and part-time radio guy, I also get a solid refresh.
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Re: IFR Currency for Jack - KSMX KPRB KSBA (Full ATC)

Post by Boatguy »

What generation SR22T is that? Which avionics?
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Re: IFR Currency for Jack - KSMX KPRB KSBA (Full ATC)

Post by waynemcc999 »

Boatguy wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:46 pm What generation SR22T is that? Which avionics?
Russ, I think that Jack's 2015 SR22T is a G5:
https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N451RK

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Re: IFR Currency for Jack - KSMX KPRB KSBA (Full ATC)

Post by Boatguy »

I think that's still Cirrus Perspective, the original G1000, just like your plane. But the center console strips out all the MFD buttons which seems like it changes the UI quite a bit, even though I'm sure the same buttons are being pushed. The console is certainly easier to reach, especially in the larger Cirrus cockpit.

What did you think of using the console versus the buttons/knobs on the MFD?
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Re: IFR Currency for Jack - KSMX KPRB KSBA (Full ATC)

Post by waynemcc999 »

Boatguy wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:15 pm I think that's still Cirrus Perspective, the original G1000, just like your plane. But the center console strips out all the MFD buttons which seems like it changes the UI quite a bit, even though I'm sure the same buttons are being pushed. The console is certainly easier to reach, especially in the larger Cirrus cockpit.

What did you think of using the console versus the buttons/knobs on the MFD?
Russ, I believe you're correct on Perspective (rather than Perspective-Plus).

Regarding the center console... all my muscle memory (from my DA40/G1000) takes me to the PFD and MFD (and GFC700 between the two) and it would take me quite a bit of time to get used to the center console. Certainly the keyboard and numpad are nice, and as you note, things are easier to reach. But I'm NOT a fan of all the heads-down time the center console encourages... that danger might be mitigated as the pilot develops the muscle memory to use the knobs/buttons from the center console WITHOUT looking at them (most all actions can and should be visually verified in real-time on the PFD/MFD... esp the FD/Autopilot modes, as you see me lecture Jack a bit :) ).

Oh, and I also don't like at all the "mode switch" on the center console... FMS/FPL/COM/NAV/XPDR/CRS... I was constantly tuning in a new COM freq and then realizing I was slewing the FPL up/down. And for the copilot, you can't set COM or NAV freqs from the MFD!!

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Re: IFR Currency for Jack - KSMX KPRB KSBA (Full ATC)

Post by Boatguy »

Modes are really a no-no in UI design. Larry Tesler who was an early architect of UI design, and whom I worked with at Apple, had license plates that read "NO MODES"!

The Mode button would significantly change the UI of the G1000. I have a friend who is purchasing a G6 SR22T and it will be interesting to fly with him and see how he handles it.
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Re: IFR Currency for Jack - KSMX KPRB KSBA (Full ATC)

Post by waynemcc999 »

Boatguy wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:45 pm Modes are really a no-no in UI design. Larry Tesler who was an early architect of UI design, and whom I worked with at Apple, had license plates that read "NO MODES"!

The Mode button would significantly change the UI of the G1000. I have a friend who is purchasing a G6 SR22T and it will be interesting to fly with him and see how he handles it.
Agreed on the "no modes". We have a few cases of it in our G1000/GFC700 DA40s, e.g. HDG/ROL, and I don't like modes there either.
Let us know your experience flying right seat in your friend's G6.
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Re: IFR Currency for Jack - KSMX KPRB KSBA (Full ATC)

Post by Boatguy »

waynemcc999 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:52 pm Agreed on the "no modes". We have a few cases of it in our G1000/GFC700 DA40s, e.g. HDG/ROL, and I don't like modes there either.
There is a difference between a mode of operation, HDG/ROL/NAV for lateral modes, and UI "modes" which change the behavior of UI elements. That is what I believe you experienced with Perspective; the Mode button changed the effect of one of the other UI controls, such as the number pad or cursor keys.

Operational modes are inescapable; HDG/ROL/NAV are three different behaviors for lateral navigation. We don't want to eliminate any of those operational modes as they serve different purposes. The UI is such that the HDG and NAV buttons toggles those lateral modes On/Off; with OFF defaulting to ROL. But a change in lateral modes does not change the operation of any other UI control. The Heading or Course knob doesn't suddenly become the degree of ROL if you're in ROL mode. The Heading knob and Course knobs always do the same thing, changing the Heading or Course setting.

That said, it would probably be an improvement if the G1000 had a single lateral mode button that cycled through HDG/ROL/NAV. Then they could have put the CDI button, which is really the NAV Source selector, onto the AP panel as SRC. But of course they didn't want to do that because the AP is an option, so they stuck it on the PFD which is not an option. A UI trade off for the purpose of product packaging.

The standard G1000 FMS knobs are very modal which is what makes them so confusing. Most of the time the big knob moves between fields, but sometimes it moves between values, as when entering an airport or VOR identifier. That's definitely a UI flaw.

And that is probably more discussion than anyone wanted on this subject!
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Re: IFR Currency for Jack - KSMX KPRB KSBA (Full ATC)

Post by CFIDave »

FWIW, the DA62 has a somewhat similar center console keypad/control panel (Garmin GCU 476) for controlling the G1000 NXi -- I ordered it as an option on my plane but almost never use it, mostly because of the confusing modal issue you're describing. While it lacks the autopilot controls of the Cirrus, the 476 otherwise lets you access every function available on the PFD and MFD.

Fortunately the DA62's G1000 PFD and MFD still contain all of the same bezel buttons and knobs as DA40s and DA42s, and I find it's just as efficient to change radio frequencies spinning knobs on the PFD/MFD as it is to directly enter the digits into the 476.

As for entering waypoints and airports into the G1000 Flight Plan, you'd think using the GCU 476 keypad would make that much easier since you can directly enter alphanumeric keystrokes. But now with the FlightStream 510 wireless card finally certified for the NXi DA62, I've discovered that the easiest way to enter or change a flight plan is by using Foreflight on my iPad, and then hitting the sync button to send flight plan updates to the panel.

Bottom line: IMHO hardware keypads are over-rated.
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Re: IFR Currency for Jack - KSMX KPRB KSBA (Full ATC)

Post by waynemcc999 »

Dave, that's excellent firsthand feedback. Seems none of us is a fan of the mode buttons on the center console, and you bring up a super point that the FlightStream 510 nicely negates the need for the keypad (in general, I find the iPad almost always wins for ease of data entry).
And... what a smart move of Diamond to leave the bezel buttons/knobs on the PFD and MFD!
Thanks,
Wayne
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