Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

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salim
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by salim »

I inquired about the stec 3100 for my legacy da42.
I understand there are significant challenges dealing with diamond and Garmin to get the system certified.
But I believe it is worth registering our genuine interest with Genesys so at least they know there is a potential market, and that they have an incentive to find a solution
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ememic99
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by ememic99 »

Scott, thanks for starting this new thread. I don’t think that anyone, who does serious cross country flying, questions usability and necessity of autopilot. I often hand-fly IFR departures, arrivals and approaches to stay current and I evaluate my performance comparing to how I’ve done on sone previous occasion with using autopilot. And almost always I find some smaller discrepancy from what I consider to be satisfactory. It’s either asking ATC to repeat the instruction or forgetting to say heading to next ATC if asked to or less frequently checking weather or being less strict with checklists. Simply the things that you miss when task overloaded. Additionally, I notice the level of sweating and fatigue is higher although I don’t feel more stressed when actually flying. Also, the more I hand-fly the hungrier I am when land and that’s definitely the proof of more energy spent. I measured this across at least 1000 flight hours when I started to evaluate myself in more details.

Regarding the alternatives to GFC700, I’m definitely willing to commit myself if any of these initiatives offer the solution in near future. I’m ready to commit for GFC700 as well if it comes at more reasonable price.
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TwinStarScott
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by TwinStarScott »

The Aerostar community has been talking to Genesys for years regarding the 3100 trying to drum up enough interest to get the STC for the Aerostar. For Aerostar I believe they want something on the order of 20 commitments before they even think about starting on the process and then once started it will be at best a year until approved. All out quoted cost for the Aerostar is around 35 g’s plus or minus.
Good to know Tommy, thanks. Does $35,000 include installation or is that the equipment only price? My guess is the latter.

One more point and question:

A/P's that offer envelope protection are almost guaranteed to save lives, if they haven't already. Without doing further research, it got me to wondering how many GA certified A/P's offer this safety enhancement - beyond the STEC 3100 and GFC series? Does anyone know this information off the top of their head?
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by Tommy »

Yes, that is the install price.
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ememic99
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by ememic99 »

TwinStarScott wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:33 pm Does anyone know this information off the top of their head?
DFC90 I believe.
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TwinStarScott
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by TwinStarScott »

Tommy: thanks for clarifying (wasn't a 100% sure what "all out quoted cost" meant). I’m a bit surprised then, that the Aerostar owners weren’t more responsive at a total package price of $35,000 for the S-TEC 3100. Such a bargain compared to the GFC700 at $80,000. Wonder how much additional labor would be involved with installation in a composite airframe? Perhaps this is why Salim is estimating roughly only a 40% savings ($32,000) versus over a 50% savings ($45,000).

Salim: Will take your timely suggestion and call Genesys about the S-TEC 3100 during this upcoming week.

Emir: Sure enough, the DFC90 does have envelope protection! Plus this A/P may have some features the GFC series doesn’t. However, there are always drawbacks, such as the Avidyne servos aren’t brushless, whereas the GFC servos are. Yet the DFC90 retailed in 2010 for $10,000 and the installation apparently isn’t all that time-consuming.

While this could be somewhat outdated by now, I found this AvWeb video interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x7WhdcR8gI

Last, but certainly not least. . . . .

Steve: great hearing your perspective on A/P's and for sharing the locations you've been stationed while flying in the Navy!
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salim
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by salim »

Scott,

Actually I was relying on the $19,995 listed price for the 2-Axis System and assuming a roughly 15 k install.

An other option would be to contact Urbe Aero and make the case for both a software and autopilot update.

After all, they certified the WAAS upgrade for legacy planes in Europe and are very close to Dimaond.

What do you think ?

Best,
Salim
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ememic99
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by ememic99 »

Urbe Aero is probably the last place in the world where you want to try to get something cheap :)
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salim
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by salim »

you're right, and I know precisely how much I will pay them for the right to install my two GIA63W on my plane..

That being said, whoever is going to develop upgrades for the legacy fleet is going to do it for profit.

The fact the legacy fleet may represent a significant market is the only lever we have to obtain an upgrade path

Then it's probably up to us to try to negotiate a discount if we order an upgrade for a significant number of planes
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by ememic99 »

salim wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:06 am That being said, whoever is going to develop upgrades for the legacy fleet is going to do it for profit.
None if us is expecting to get anything for free. But the upgrades have already been developed (NXi, GFC700, GIA63W) with corresponding software. What we ask is to not being overcharged (i.e. to see transparent parts & labor prices) and DAI to allow other certified Diamond/Garmin shops to perform the upgrades.
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