New Cirrus Trainer

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AndrewM
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Re: New Cirrus Trainer

Post by AndrewM »

Out of interest, if you get your Commercial ticket in the US, does it have any meaningful impact on insurance rates?

Certainly having the Instrument Rating does...
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Re: New Cirrus Trainer

Post by Colin »

My agent said that it would not have an impact on my rates, other than the usual "good student" discount that I get for doing training every year toward endorsements or ratings.
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Re: New Cirrus Trainer

Post by CFIDave »

AndrewM wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:59 pm Out of interest, if you get your Commercial ticket in the US, does it have any meaningful impact on insurance rates?

Certainly having the Instrument Rating does...
Need to distinguish between FAA Commercial single (ASEL) vs. FAA Commercial multi (AMEL).

The single-engine Commercial IMHO is worth getting because of the "stick and rudder" skills it teaches to fly the maneuvers -- it's also a lot of fun! In particular mastering the "180 degree power-off spot landing" really instills confidence that you can put the plane down into a field in the event of an engine failure. Before the FAA change allowed a TAA to substitute for a "complex" single (with real retractable landing gear), I practiced all of the ASEL maneuvers in both my DA40 and a rental A36 Bonanza; for the checkride I demonstrated all of the maneuvers in the DA40 but landed and took the A36 around the pattern a few times just to demonstrate I could work retractable gear.

The twin-engine Commercial (FAA AMEL) is virtually identical to the Private AMEL, but with slightly higher demonstrated performance criteria -- there's so little difference for Private vs. Commercial that most pilots I know migrating from a single to a twin take the Commercial checkride. For flying multi-engine aircraft, I don't think having a Commercial has much of an effect on insurance rates.

I fail to see how the Cirrus Trainer simulated landing gear feature does much good: For the ASEL Commercial you no longer need retractable gear with a TAA -- for which any modern glass cockpit SR20 or SR22 already qualifies. For the AMEL you of course need to fly a twin-engined aircraft, virtually all of which have real retractable gear, and (as already noted) will give the pilot the real sensations of flying gear up vs. down -- something missing with a fake gear switch and lights.
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Re: New Cirrus Trainer

Post by Colin »

That was the best dexcription of the commercial ticket differences that I have seen and now it makes sense why it SEEMED like it was going to be so much work when I was headed in single engine and why the DPE I bumped into after my multi rating said, "It will be a piece of cake, it's a big PPL VFR ride for you."

You should *really* get the single add-on because then you can fly seaplanes for hire, which seems like a pretty good job market, particularly in the summers.
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Re: New Cirrus Trainer

Post by ememic99 »

In EASA-land it’s big complication - PPL and CPL are two separated worlds and there’s no path for upgrading PPL to CPL. You have to sit 12-13 exams for CPL regardless the fact that content overlaps with PPL at least 70%. And if you have IR on top of PPL you practically covered more than it’s in CPL syllabus. At the same time CPL doesn’t give you IR ticket you have to do it separately (7 exams plus 35 flight hours - the same as when you add IR on top of PPL).
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Re: New Cirrus Trainer

Post by CFIDave »

Colin wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:18 pmYou should *really* get the single add-on because then you can fly seaplanes for hire, which seems like a pretty good job market, particularly in the summers.
Except that to fly seaplanes in the US requires an "Airplane Single Engine Seaplane" (ASES) or "Airplane Multi Engine Seaplane" (AMES) rating (Private or Commercial) instead of the Aircraft Single Engine Land (ASEL) or Aircraft Multi Engine Land (AMEL) ratings you have now.
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Re: New Cirrus Trainer

Post by Colin »

Getting the seaplane rating is the fun part. (Kenmore Air in Seattle does training. My guess is they keep track of the good students.)
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Re: New Cirrus Trainer

Post by Rich »

At some level, any plane used for training acts as an imperfect simulator for other aircraft of different types you may come to fly. I think that "flow" argument is pretty weak. How about aircraft with cowl flaps and various other requirements, like carb heat whenever power is reduced or the nuances of fuel-tank switching. As far as retractable gear goes, emergency gear extension procedures vary widely among different types. Then there are stall-spin behaviors. I've encountered pilots who were taught to never touch the mixture control at all. So if you train with and are ingrained with the simplicity of FADEC and get that part 135 job flying Beavers around Puget Sound, how much of that "flow" must you unlearn/modify/expand, anyway.

Pilots with thousands of hours in a given accident airplane type inadvertently land with the gear in the wrong position with great regularity. And "gear down" isn't always the proper position, such as with amphibious floats in a water landing. We have numerous accidents (very often fatal) in the Northwest every single year due to this latter oversight, usually due to some untimely distraction.
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Re: New Cirrus Trainer

Post by Moonshine »

ememic99 wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:41 pm
Colin wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:30 pm You can make fun of the landing gear switch, but it teaches a flow for the landing and allows them to take a Commercial ticket checkride, and they will probably move on to a complex twin from there.
No they can't - retractable gear and variable prop pitch is required.
Yeah they can. Complex airplane is no longer required for the commercial ticket.
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Re: New Cirrus Trainer

Post by ememic99 »

Moonshine wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:34 pm
ememic99 wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:41 pm
Colin wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:30 pm You can make fun of the landing gear switch, but it teaches a flow for the landing and allows them to take a Commercial ticket checkride, and they will probably move on to a complex twin from there.
No they can't - retractable gear and variable prop pitch is required.
Yeah they can. Complex airplane is no longer required for the commercial ticket.
Once again: As I wrote above - surprisingly, there's aviation outside US - so, what's possible under FAA regulation might not be in EASA-land or in some countries in Europe.
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