Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

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TwinStarScott
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TwinStarScott »

For starters, I’d like to thank:

1) Mickey for adding his Canadian registered DA40 to the list and with a pending response / clarification out of the London factory, we hope he doesn't sell his airplane anytime soon. Unfortunately I've heard from others who have or are in the process of.

2) Arkadiusz for signing up his TDI DA-42. He also scored a perfect 100% - with regards to the completeness of the data he provided. This is also the first Polish registered aircraft on the list.

Both aircraft, once again, highlight the global reach of DAN and the worldwide representation within the petition itself.

Next, my apologies to Curt for the slow response.

We simply don’t know if the G3X will ever become STC’d for DA. Yet it really should be an AML slam dunk for the steam gauge DA40’s – as Tommy and I have encouraged these owners to organize and then advocate for Garmin to obtain STC’s (with all their great new products, such as the G5, GFC500 and, of course, the G3X touch display).

Another exciting avenue for these owners to pursue is the Genesys / STEC 3100 A/P - as discussed in the “Autopilots are the answer, not the problem“ thread (the G5 will need to be approved first or in conjunction with). viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7084

In addition to the G1000 petition and other related activities (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6946#p75287), there is also a parallel effort by DAN members to encourage Dynon Avionics to enter the integrated avionics market, with their new flagship HDX touchscreen displays leading the way. And note the very reasonable prices:

https://www.dynonavionics.com/skyview-hdx.php

Finally Curt, please see the recent thread started by Emir and consider adding your aircraft to this list:
"Dynon Avionics - seeking an alternative to Garmin" viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7114
To add your aircraft to the G1000 petition (listed below) please send me a PM - thanks!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
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TwinStarScott
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TwinStarScott »

This weekend we heard from long-time Diamond owner Brian, as he sent a PM requesting his DA40 (N224BS) be added to the list.

This brings the total aircraft count to 167, as activity on DAN tends to increase around major holidays.
To add your aircraft to the G1000 petition (listed below) please send me a PM - thanks!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
wmbjenkins
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by wmbjenkins »

I'm a little confused here. I have seen several comments on this thread about "We simply don’t know if the G3X will ever become STC’d for DA. Yet it really should be an AML slam dunk for the steam gauge DA40’s". As I read the Garmin approved list the G3X suite is already STC'd and available for the non G1000 planes.

Here is their latest list: http://static.garmin.com/pumac/sa01899wi_aml.pdf

Am I misunderstanding something?
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ememic99
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by ememic99 »

Sometimes it’s not easy to understand what and how can be installed in particular aircraft even if STC exists.

Here are lists of aircrafts for which G500 and G500 TXi are STC’ed.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_an ... -D_AML.pdf
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_an ... SE_AML.pdf

Note that DA42 is at G500 list, yet we all know that due TC (G1000 is part of DA42 TC) it’s very questionable how G500 can be installed instead of G1000.
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greg
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by greg »

Apologies for the thread drift, but the thing I've never understood about the type certificate/STC issue is why it affects stuff inside the cockpit. Surely the TC is (or should be) about whether the plane is safe to fly, what the stall and Vne speeds are, etc?

Change the engine, that changes the way it flies, and an STC (and relevant flight testing) is warranted. But changing to a different artificial horizon, for example, has no effect on how it flies. I don't think I've ever flown two C172s or PA28s with the same instrumentation, yet none of those needed an STC to change the instrumentation. The G1000 is really just a collection of instruments - why can't we replace them the same way a C172 owner can? (The G1000 does include an autopilot, and I acknowledge that does have "flyability" ramifications. Is that the only thing that causes the STC requirement?)
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TimS »

Greg,

To change the altimeter or any instrument does require an STC in almost every case.
In many cases, the G1000 was explicitly included in the TC.
The TC includes pretty much everything in the plane, including the carpets....

Tim
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by ememic99 »

What is interesting here is relation between TC and STC.
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TwinStarScott
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TwinStarScott »

Jumping back a few posts to one by William.

While the G3X has been added to the AML list for the DA40, my understanding is that for an avionics shop to legally install one or more of these displays, it also requires the G5 to be approved. This has yet to occur.

Once again, I would encourage all DA40 owners* to organize an effort to lobby both DAI and Garmin to certify a complete non-G1000 solution. With an avionics package that includes an autopilot with envelope protection (such as the GFC500, STEC 3100, etc.).

This might require a single DA40-180 owner to loan their aircraft to Garmin for flight testing. As I've heard firsthand this is common practice at the Garmin AT facility in Salem, OR. Although at one time Garmin did own a DA40. This may still be the case.

* whether round gauge or (legacy) G1000 equipped, as the savings will likely be substantial over an NXi option - as currently listed in the September 17, 2019 letter ($185,000 NXi and for those DA40 owners with a KAP140 A/P, add another $65,000 (no yaw damper option) for a GFC700 = a grand total of $250,000).
To add your aircraft to the G1000 petition (listed below) please send me a PM - thanks!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
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Charles K
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by Charles K »

The G1000 was installed under an STC - which means it is not tied to the airframe TC. I know that from my logbook and here is a link to the TC...

STC No. SA01254W
http://static.garmin.com/pumac/G1000:Di ... _DA40_.pdf.

It appears it is a Garmin STC and thus should allow another STC for other avionics or G1000 versions. Essentially mine started with a TC for a steam gauge and then my logbooks show the G1000 installed per the STC.

Now bear in mind I have a 2004 which is the first year installed with G1000 and later years may have the G1000 as part of the TC.
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neema
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by neema »

TwinStarScott wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:46 am

* whether round gauge or (legacy) G1000 equipped, as the savings will likely be substantial over an NXi option - as currently listed in the September 17, 2019 letter ($185,000 NXi and for those DA40 owners with a KAP140 A/P, add another $65,000 (no yaw damper option) for a GFC700 = a grand total of $250,000).
$250k for avionics for planes in this category is w i l d

The bummer with TXi/G3X is the pace and airframe prioritization with Garmin APs.
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