Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

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Tommy
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by Tommy »

I had my 40 XLS for over 7 years and flew it in just about every imaginable ifr scenario. My G1000, GFC 700, WAAS equipped aircraft was astonishing in its capabilities, reliability and sense of assurance it provided. In seven plus years of heavy use I never had a failure or disconnect, ever. To this day when I think back, it is astounding the capabilities the Garmin package provided my plane. I wish I had the same package in my Aerostar right now. The Avionics package that Garmin provides Diamond is just to perfect and just to integral in all of Diamond’s lines, to, in my opinion consider anything else. The Garmin package just expands the capabilities so much that in my opinion it adequately compensates for the lack of performance that I really wish the entire Diamond line had. Nothing comes close to what Garmin can provide, hence, Garmin is not cheap.
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AndrewM
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by AndrewM »

Tommy, I tend to agree with your comments, although, I am no where near as experienced as you to be able to compare all the different avionics options on the market. During my time owning an XLS which was configured the same as yours with WAAS, I too found the capabilities just wonderful. Now in an XL, which does not have WAAS. I miss having WAAS, but G1000 with GFC700 alone are still just great. My CFII who is with the airlines is always bitching and moaning about how much better the G1000 is vs the avionics in the jets he flies.
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TwinStarScott
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by TwinStarScott »

The Garmin package just expands the capabilities so much that in my opinion it adequately compensates for the lack of performance that I really wish the entire Diamond line had. Nothing comes close to what Garmin can provide, hence, Garmin is not cheap.
Granted, there is no question Garmin makes great products and if the NXi / GFC700 upgrade pricing was within reach of most legacy G1000 / KAP140 owners, this discussion of an alternative avionics company would largely be moot. And yet these cost concerns even go beyond individual owners, as in the course of speaking with two flight schools* they too expressed their complete dismay.

It should also be noted, the few owners I’ve spoken with that own both a G1000 equipped Diamond and a second aircraft with an IFR certified Dynon panel, much prefer the latter - largely because of Dynon’s intuitive software. And in my 30 minutes of experimenting with the HDX demo displays (while in Dynon’s lobby), it’s not difficult to understand why these owners have a strong preference for Dynon. In addition, the super clean wiring behind these HDX panels could be described as revolutionary – given the simplicity of installation, which could easily pay handsome dividends in the event of troubleshooting. It also seems quite possible if Dynon acquires an STC for the IO-360 DA40 (and hopefully the TDI DA42 too) this could additionally solve the age-old G1000 OEM stale software trap.

So, every DAN member with a legacy G1000 panel and KAP140 A/P has a decision to make at this rather crucial point in time:

1) Do nothing and eventually have no other choice than to accept a $265,000** price tag (to upgrade to the NXi/GFC700, pending further clarification from Diamond London). While leaving us having further Cirrus envy - as these owners will likely become the first airframe to have a much more affordable option to install a Dynon panel.

OR

2) Legacy Diamond owners can take the bull by the horns and start / participate in a Dynon sign-up sheet, by expressing their sincere interest and desire to have this nimble company provide us with an affordable, perhaps even superior, alternative.

What other choices do we really have?



* with the flight schools director of operations and while discussing other topics, the subject of NXi/GFC700 pricing came up during these separate conversations.

** which doesn’t include inflation or other unrelated price increases in the next ten years or so.
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ememic99
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by ememic99 »

The additional problem in this equation is that we actually don’t know if Garmin is really expensive or it’s just DAI who tries to charge us as much as possible because we don’t have an alternative. It’s practically impossible to get pricing information of Garmin parts that are included in integrated avionics. Looking at the price difference between GFC600 (which we can assume is similar to GFC700, so below $26k) and how much DAI asks for it ($80k), we can easily conclude who’s taking the advantage.
Last edited by ememic99 on Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tommy
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by Tommy »

Who cares who’s making how much money or who’s not. The market will determine whether or not the system is worth the outlay.
At some point you have to stop talking and make a decision. Continually wringing your hands is as it appears, totally futile.
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ememic99
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by ememic99 »

Obviously we don’t have efficient mechanism for pushing DAI/Garmin, so currently the most still can be achieved with talking. However, the initiative with Dynon opens well worth alternative and I’m ready to fully support it.
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by Tommy »

What achievements have been made via talking?
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ememic99
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by ememic99 »

Tommy wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:20 pm What achievements have been made via talking?
In this case none, yet. But in real life it's called negotiations :) however for the real and productive ones you have to have some levers to press the other side. That's what we miss at the moment. So the actions we can take are very limited.
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by Tommy »

The best action is to go somewhere else. Take your money somewhere else. Everybody understands that. You call it negotiations. I call it being strung out. You talk and talk and get nowhere. Like I said, take you’re money somewhere else and I’ll guarantee you’ll get there attention unless of course they have already determined they just don’t need or want your business which is my guess.
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ememic99
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by ememic99 »

You are probably right and I might do that when/if I’m not happy with the aircraft I currently fly.
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