SureFly Electronic Ignition

Discussions specific to Lycoming engines

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Rich »

Another interim report: 2+ months and 14 or so hours later and it's still behaving. One other tweak I did awhile back was to ensure the fuse holder was secured in such a way that the wire leads could not do any tugging, wiggling or whatever on the fuse contacts. It's not obvious in the photos but the fuse holder is also clamped against a bit of stiff, closed-cell foam to try to absorb vibration.
Surefly fuseholder.jpg
All flights I make are at at least some degree of spark advance. I spend a fair amount of time at 7000-8000 ft.. DA is typically 1000-1500 ft. higher lately.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
User avatar
Steve
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 1953
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:23 am
First Name: Steve
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N432SC
Airports: 1T7
Has thanked: 81 times
Been thanked: 493 times

Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Steve »

Rich:

You might consider throwing a couple of ty-wraps on the wires to the fuse holder as well. I could imagine those wires vibrating at some resonant frequency from engine vibration, and eventually internally failing at the fuse holder terminal crimp.

Steve
User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Rich »

Steve wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:43 pm Rich:

You might consider throwing a couple of ty-wraps on the wires to the fuse holder as well. I could imagine those wires vibrating at some resonant frequency from engine vibration, and eventually internally failing at the fuse holder terminal crimp.

Steve
They are tied, just far away from the fuseholder. And it was a problem with a canted contact with the fuse, due to lateral force from the wire, that made the initial installation flaky. I'm still seeking a better fuse holder solution altogether.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Rich »

I just realized a detail I think needs to be included if you replace the right mag with the SIM, and want both the SIM and Slick Start to provide starting spark.

In my plane (and likely all) the right mag is grounded at the ignition switch during the starting sequence. The jumper that accomplishes this is at the switch and should be removed when installing a right-mag SIM, so it will fire when starting. This jumper is not shown in the wiring diagram.

It is possible that some early DA40's didn't have this jumper and used the old Slick Start to ground the right mag. But it's worth checking into, including if that #2 terminal is connected to the right SIM, it will prevent it from firing during startup.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
User avatar
Davestation
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:49 pm
First Name: David
Aircraft Type: D-JET
Aircraft Registration: NDJET
Airports: KFTW
Has thanked: 103 times
Been thanked: 100 times

Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Davestation »

I never gave putting it on the right mag much thought. It doesn’t have a tach out correct? So you’d have to move that pickup to the left.

Just seems to make more sense to remove the slickstart. One less thing to worry about, and perhaps you could get some money for it? I’d also tee off the existing map line which is right there.
User avatar
Diamond_Dan
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:20 pm
First Name: Dan
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N456AS
Airports: KLWM
Has thanked: 135 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Diamond_Dan »

We are having ours done right now. My mechanic discussed with the SureFly rep and the their recommendation is to replace the right mag, disable the advance timing, and keep the SS. My understanding is that we will be starting off the left mag only. The plane is kept near sea level and I don't often go above 6 or 7K feet. Will post a PIREP here.
User avatar
gsontheimer
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:44 am
First Name: gsontheimer
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N937DS
Airports: EDHL
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by gsontheimer »

My incentive to buy the SureFly was the advance timing. Would it not be better fur SF to fix what is broken?
Gerhard

N937DS: DA40.992 (2008 XLS)
FAA: ATP, CFI, CFII, MEI
EASA: CPL(A)-IR, FI(A), IRI, FE(A), IRE(A)
Cirrus TCI
User avatar
Davestation
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:49 pm
First Name: David
Aircraft Type: D-JET
Aircraft Registration: NDJET
Airports: KFTW
Has thanked: 103 times
Been thanked: 100 times

Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Davestation »

Diamond_Dan wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:45 pm We are having ours done right now. My mechanic discussed with the SureFly rep and the their recommendation is to replace the right mag, disable the advance timing, and keep the SS. My understanding is that we will be starting off the left mag only. The plane is kept near sea level and I don't often go above 6 or 7K feet. Will post a PIREP here.
What is their reasoning? One of the big selling points for me is that the electronic ignition makes starts significantly easier. Another one is the spark advance. Why don’t they don’t want you using either of those features?
User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Rich »

Davestation wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:08 am I never gave putting it on the right mag much thought. It doesn’t have a tach out correct? So you’d have to move that pickup to the left.

Just seems to make more sense to remove the slickstart. One less thing to worry about, and perhaps you could get some money for it? I’d also tee off the existing map line which is right there.
Some have replaced the right mag and some plan to. The argument for doing this is that then you have all 8 plugs contributing to the start. But if that jumper is left in place you just have the SS. If you set it up so both units are contributing to the start, then failure of the SS (which does happen) isn't so critical. On the other hand you might not notice if the SS did fail.

There are a number of factors that make it less work to replace the left mag. In my case I replaced the left, disconnected the SS, but simply tied back the leads and left the SS mounted. This is intentional, should I want to pull the SIM and go back to just mags.

I read a port by a guy with an RV that moved the left mag to the right position and put the SIM in the left mag spot. I don't recall the rationale.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
User avatar
Diamond_Dan
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:20 pm
First Name: Dan
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N456AS
Airports: KLWM
Has thanked: 135 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Diamond_Dan »

Please disregard my previous post. After talking with SureFly, Diamond tech support, and my mechanic, we are going to enable advance timing, and enable both mags for starting. SureFly will be replacing my right mag.

I was told by Diamond Tech support that enabling both mags to start would be basically reversing the attached SS SB, but reading it sounds like a jumper would need to be added (not removed)?

SS service bulletin for disabling dual magneto start and Diamond OSB for SLICKStart installation attached for reference.

Does anyone know the proper way to tap into the manifold pressure for timing advance? Nobody was sure, but Will from SureFly said it would either be a 1/8" NPT to 1/8" hose barb into the primer port or TEE into an existing line. Can someone who has had this done comment?
Attachments
SB40-027-0-O-LASAR-SLICKStart-incl-WI.pdf
(664.69 KiB) Downloaded 106 times
SlickStart Terminal 2 Removal SB1-06.pdf
(59.51 KiB) Downloaded 112 times
Post Reply