SureFly Electronic Ignition

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Rich
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Rich »

Rich wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:44 pm Installed today. Opted to replace left mag, as it was somewhat less hassle to do. The Slick Start has been left mounted but disconnected.

It was pretty straightforward, just followed directions. Did some runups and all looks good.

I'll take the bird flying tomorrow and see how it does in the air. The only real wrinkle was finding an appropriate "T" fitting for the MP tap. We kludged together a solution but I'll be looking for a cleaner one.
Notes:
1. You'll need something like this, which is not supplied: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072R ... UTF8&psc=1
2. If replacing the left mag, removing the crankcase vent hose makes it a lot easier. Bring the SIM up from below.
3. We used a LiFeSO4 motorcycle battery I had lying around and a couple of alligator-clip leads to set the timing both for the initial indexing on the bench and after installation. Connecting to the aircraft battery was last.
4. After bench-setting the timing, we marked the gear and the SIM housing with a Sharpee to make sure we didn't lose alignment while installing.
5. Also, if replacing the left mag make sure the SlickStart is completely disabled. In my case, this meant disconnecting and tying back the VIN terminal lead, the left mag SS/p-lead terminal wire at the SIM end, and the lead that went to the retard breaker, which is no longer there, naturally. If you currently still have a lead from SS terminal #2 that grounds the right mag, you should also comply with the SS bulletin that states that you remove that lead and add a jumper at the ignition switch.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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Rich
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Rich »

First actual flight did not go well. All looked promising, climbed up to 8,500 ft. and set up for cruise (WOT, 21.7 IN., 2450 rpm). Interesting changes, but I won't go into the changes too much I noticed because:

Every so often, at irregular intervals the engine would stumble for a fraction of a second. Overall, it was a bit over an hour and in total it did this maybe 5 times with constant settings. But fiddling with mixture and throttle reduction for descent induced a few more. Not confidence-inspiring. Has anyone else seen this?

Left a message with Surefly, this being Saturday.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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Steve
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Steve »

Rich:

Did you run on single mags at all (either the Slick or SureFly alone)? This would allow you to isolate the issue to either the SureFly or the remaining Slick magneto. I recall that you did some modification of the SlickStart wiring, could this be an issue?

Steve
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

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Steve wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:01 pm Rich:

Did you run on single mags at all (either the Slick or SureFly alone)? This would allow you to isolate the issue to either the SureFly or the remaining Slick magneto. I recall that you did some modification of the SlickStart wiring, could this be an issue?

Steve
Didn't run on a single mag. We disabled the Slick Start because we replaced the left mag, to which it was connected. The SF is not compatible with SF. We didn't touch the right mag at all. Depending on what I hear back from SF, I may go up and try running on one mag at a time. But it requires running for an extended period on that single mag to find out anything. Nothing showed up in ground mag checks before or after the flights. No problems during climb (5,000 above the airport) or the first 10 minutes or so of cruise. This and some other behaviors (inconsistent reaction of EGT/CHT readings to mixture changes) makes suspect that the unit is varying the advance erratically.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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Rich
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

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BTW, they just increased the price by about $150.00.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

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I spoke with SF tech support and they have a plausible explanation for the behavior I've seen. And they've run into it also. This may or may not be my specific problem (will confirm later today), but they've encountered cases where the crimping of the wires at the inline fuse holder were improper, resulting in exactly the effect I observed. They are sending a replacement for this part of the installation kit.

This is not something I thought to check, but will later this morning. For those of you who have installed a SF or are about to, this is something worth checking - that the connections at the fuse holder are properly crimped.

Kudos to their folks for responsiveness.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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briankelly327
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by briankelly327 »

Rich - two questions for you on Surefly.

Did you order the SIM4N non impulse for the left mag?

And any further luck in flight testing? I go into annual end of the month, my left mag needs overhaul and I was eyeing the surefly as a replacement.

My rationale for surefly relates to getting consistent timing. My timing drifts over short intervals, i think due to the whole engine shake during startup and shutdown and I’m hoping this helps keep timing more consistent.
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

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briankelly327 wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:33 pm Rich - two questions for you on Surefly.

Did you order the SIM4N non impulse for the left mag?

And any further luck in flight testing? I go into annual end of the month, my left mag needs overhaul and I was eyeing the surefly as a replacement.

My rationale for surefly relates to getting consistent timing. My timing drifts over short intervals, i think due to the whole engine shake during startup and shutdown and I’m hoping this helps keep timing more consistent.
Whichever one you replace (left or right) it needs to be the SIM4N. BTW, there's some confusing instruction in the Installation Guide about dealing with the Slick Start. In reality it needs to be taken out of the circuit entirely, which is pretty straightforward. More complicated if you have the SS #2 lead connected to the right mag.

On further flight testing, I haven't been able to yet. I just received a replacement fuse lead yesterday from SF and the airport has been socked in all day. In examining the original assembly I received there doesn't seem to be a problem with the crimps in it. I powered the mags and jiggled and pulled and whatnot on all parts of the power lead and could not induce a SIM restart. The same with jiggling the ignition switch. I might be able to squeeze in some testing tomorrow morning but the forecast after that for many days is grim so this could be awhile.

I spoke with SF again this morning and the tech suggested flying with the p-lead disconnected from the SIM to rule out some intermittent grounding there, which would cause the unit to cycle.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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Rich
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

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Well, it looks good now. Flew around for about 1/2 hour without a recurrence of the problem. So what changed? I looked more closely at the original and replacement fuse holders and noticed a couple of things:

1. The wire at the little mushroom fitting on the spring end wasn't exactly straight. So it seemed to me it might not be making flat-surface contact with the fuse, possibly sitting cocked in the holder. I straightened that small part of the wire.

2. Subjectively the spring in the new holder seemed to provide a stronger compression force against the fuse. So I stretched the spring in the original holder so its free length was a bit longer. That did increase the force against the spring as I closed it up..

I called SF and giving them the update and suggested they look into supplying a different kind of fuse, such as the very common blade type widely used in autos. These fittings really hold the fuse tightly. He (Bill) said they were looking at this area.

I didn't fly too long today to look into performance changes, as the barometer is falling like crazy, lowering clouds and wind-induced turbulence. But from what I've observed (all ROP cruise so far), slightly lower fuel burns with similar EGT, slightly elevated CHT at the same time. Peak EGT seems noticeably lower, also. After this rotten weather passes I'll dig a bit further.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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Rich
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Rich »

It's worth mentioning that the Installation instructions do not require you to use the power lead and fuse holder supplied by SF. Just that it must be 14 ga. wire and be fused at 10 amps. It'd be worth considering using a different fuse solution than what they are currently providing.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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