SureFly Electronic Ignition

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Ultrapilot1
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Ultrapilot1 »

I replaced my right mag with the Surefly. By doing so i could keep my Slick Start. If you want to use the Surefly on the left side then you need to remove the Slick Start system.
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Rich
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Rich »

Ultrapilot1 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:37 am
I replaced my right mag with the Surefly. By doing so i could keep my Slick Start. If you want to use the Surefly on the left side then you need to remove the Slick Start system.
I'm giving some thought to this approach, also. I just need to be sure that it's compatible with the VM1000 tach input.
2002 DA40: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by MarkA »

Steven, do you have any performance data that you can share since installing the Surefly ignition?

Also, were you able to activate the variable timing option since it appears to be available in Surefly’s application guide for the IO360-M1A, but a previous post indicated it might not yet be ready? I was wondering if the variable timing produced any significant changes to your cruise performance.

Thanks!
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Thomas »

Rich, this is also my concern, I have no answer so far. The SureFly product is also available from Lycoming https://www.lycoming.com/eis
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Steve »

Rich wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:44 am
Ultrapilot1 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:37 am
I replaced my right mag with the Surefly. By doing so i could keep my Slick Start. If you want to use the Surefly on the left side then you need to remove the Slick Start system.
I'm giving some thought to this approach, also. I just need to be sure that it's compatible with the VM1000 tach input.
From their website information, I don't think it is. The VM1000 uses a Hall effect sensor that picks up the magnetic pulses on the right magneto. You could potentially switch the sensor to the left magneto, since it has the same access plug.
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Ultrapilot1 »

MarkA wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:02 am
Steven, do you have any performance data that you can share since installing the Surefly ignition?

Also, were you able to activate the variable timing option since it appears to be available in Surefly’s application guide for the IO360-M1A, but a previous post indicated it might not yet be ready? I was wondering if the variable timing produced any significant changes to your cruise performance.

Thanks!
I have not had a chance to document any changes. I did connect the variable timing as Surefly has received permission to use it. All of my recent flights have been local. No cross country flights as yet so I can only report that I don't feel any significant change (seat of pants). I should see some fuel savings on a cross country but my priority was to eliminate the 500 hr. overhaul of at least one of my Mags. Any other benefit was just the whipped cream on the cake.
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Rich »

Put these questions to Surefly this morning. Here are their answers (responded in less than 30 minutes):

Q1. Does Surefly have a parasitic draw when not in operation?
A1. Yes, less than 1 ma. Less than a panel clock draws.

Q2. Does Surefly advance in small increments as MP decreases at a fixed RPM (as in a climb) or jump to the next color-accented setting as shown in the timing advance schedule diagram?
A2. It advances incrementally, unnoticeable to the pilot.

Q3, Is the tach signal compatible with use by a VM1000?
A3. Unsure. Check with your manual for the signal required and we may be able to help. I believe we had a customer install one and he moved the rpm pickup from the mag he replaced to the remaining mag.

I ordered one yesterday and it'll probably be installed around the first of the year. Moving the transducer, as has been suggested, is the plan for the tach.

The timing map referenced in question 2:
Surefly Timing Map.pdf
(756.26 KiB) Downloaded 84 times
2002 DA40: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Rich »

I don't have any life-changing expectations for the outcome after installing the Surefly. Possibly smoother running for one, as runups on the right mag (which will be replaced) have always produced some rough running. Beyond that, we'll see.

Assuming wide-open throttle, the advance-timing feature will start operating at about 5,000 ft (while I'm in climb-out). In cruise, it will use a maximum advance of about 34 deg for 9,000 ft and above.

Me being me I worked up a spreadsheet to transform the advance timing map into time-based and piston-position based map.

At 25 deg the pugs fire .27 inches before the top of the piston travel. The time before TDC in milliseconds varies from 2.31 to 1.54 as RPM varies from 1800-2700. This will, of course, remain true for my left mag.

The Surefly max advance varies in 2 dimensions. The max time delay varies from 2.52 to 2.28 ms before TDC and from .319 to .573 inches from top of piston travel over the RPM range above. Therefore it will fire its plugs between .20 to .74 ms before my left mag.

There will be some modest spark advance at runup.
2002 DA40: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Rich »

Installation is scheduled for late next week. Before that I will try to get a current baseline for LOP operation and retest after installation. I already have a feel for ROP cruise numbers.
2002 DA40: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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Re: SureFly Electronic Ignition

Post by Rich »

Installed today. Opted to replace left mag, as it was somewhat less hassle to do. The Slick Start has been left mounted but disconnected.

It was pretty straightforward, just followed directions. Did some runups and all looks good.

I'll take the bird flying tomorrow and see how it does in the air. The only real wrinkle was finding an appropriate "T" fitting for the MP tap. We kludged together a solution but I'll be looking for a cleaner one.
2002 DA40: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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