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1,800 Hr Inspection Costs

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:25 pm
by VickersPilot
What inspections are due at 1,800hr on the DA62/AE330. Is it correct to say the the annual/200hr, 900hr and engine overhaul are due but not the 600hr LLPs? If to include the inspections due, what is the appropriate cost at overhaul time given the potential overlap between the 900hr and engine OH?

In respect of the 900hr inspection, is this likely to become a permanent feature of the higher HP Austros or is there an extension in the pipeline?

Re: 1,800 Hr Inspection Costs

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:31 am
by CFIDave
My understanding (since I've yet to own an Austro that reached TBO) it that the overhaul cost at 1800 hours TBO includes all of the "lesser" items that occur more frequently in the maintenance schedule. Assume about $30K+ for an Austro overhaul.

Where the AE330 (E4P-C) engine of the DA62 requires more frequent parts replacement than the AE300 (E4-A, E4-B, E4-C) engines of the DA40NG/DA42NG/DA42-VI, I always assumed that this was because Austro is still collecting engine history and experience with the fleet for the higher HP engines -- that have only been shipping since the DA62 was introduced in 2016. With only about 10 hp difference between AE330 and AE300, the slight additional stresses on the DA62 engines shouldn't make much difference in how they wear. I've been hoping that by the time my DA62 hits 900 hours that Austro will have changed the recommended AE330 maintenance to match that of the lower-powered AE300 units.

However, all of this is likely being affected by two related developments:
1. Austro ran out of genuine Mercedes-produced OM640 core engines and is now assembling its own virtually identical engines.
2. There's a new part number E4A-12-500-000 for E4P-C "Version 2" engine heads for the DA62. New Version 2 heads appear to be good for 1800 hours rather than only 900 hours for original Version 1 heads, according to a June 2020 revision made to the engine maintenance manual: MM-TR-MDC-E4-520a.

Re: 1,800 Hr Inspection Costs

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:23 pm
by neema
If $30k per engine is an "all-in" cost, that's pretty good.

You still have risk of the gearboxes or TVDs not passing an inspection (adding 10k and 5k, respectively, to the overhaul). We've gone through a few TVDs and a couple gearboxes already at ~1250 hours on engines, so I'm already gearing up for a worst case of $45k/side. Still have a couple years to go.

Re: 1,800 Hr Inspection Costs

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:57 pm
by ememic99
neema wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:23 pm I'm already gearing up for a worst case of $45k/side.
That't more than twice than estimated by Diamond few years ago.

Re: 1,800 Hr Inspection Costs

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:31 pm
by neema
ememic99 wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:57 pm
neema wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:23 pm I'm already gearing up for a worst case of $45k/side.
That't more than twice than estimated by Diamond few years ago.
It'd be worst case: two failed TVDs and two failed gearboxes.

Makes you want to fly around everywhere at max continuous power!

Re: 1,800 Hr Inspection Costs

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:56 pm
by VickersPilot
neema wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:31 pm
ememic99 wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:57 pm
neema wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:23 pm I'm already gearing up for a worst case of $45k/side.
That't more than twice than estimated by Diamond few years ago.
It'd be worst case: two failed TVDs and two failed gearboxes.

Makes you want to fly around everywhere at max continuous power!
Are you suggesting we SHOULD fly at MCT given the TVDs and Gearboxes are effectively considered disposable at inspection? CFIDave helpfully pointed to a new part number for the cylinder head that should fix their issue. Is there a design update pending for TVDs or Gearboxes so they are more likely to pass inspection?

Also, the Fuel Injectors have become an 900hr LLP since Diamond published their overhaul pricing. Are new injectors included in the published OH price or do we need to add them to the overhaul as well as 900hr cost?

Re: 1,800 Hr Inspection Costs

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:58 am
by neema
VickersPilot wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:56 pm
neema wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:31 pm
ememic99 wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:57 pm

That't more than twice than estimated by Diamond few years ago.
It'd be worst case: two failed TVDs and two failed gearboxes.

Makes you want to fly around everywhere at max continuous power!
Are you suggesting we SHOULD fly at MCT given the TVDs and Gearboxes are effectively considered disposable at inspection? CFIDave helpfully pointed to a new part number for the cylinder head that should fix their issue. Is there a design update pending for TVDs or Gearboxes so they are more likely to pass inspection?

Also, the Fuel Injectors have become an 900hr LLP since Diamond published their overhaul pricing. Are new injectors included in the published OH price or do we need to add them to the overhaul as well as 900hr cost?
I think fuel injectors are included in the OH, but I don't have the Austro mx manual handy to check. Not sure about any TVD or gearbox improvements.

My point on flying at MCP is that it doesn't cost much more per mile. For a 10k gearbox every 600 hours, you'd spend 4% more per mile in fuel and "hourly" gearbox costs between 75% and 92% power, but you'd also travel around 14 knots or 8% faster. For some, a worthwhile marginal gain

And that's not including any failed TVDs

Re: 1,800 Hr Inspection Costs

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:18 am
by ememic99
neema wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:58 am
VickersPilot wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:56 pm
neema wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:31 pm

It'd be worst case: two failed TVDs and two failed gearboxes.

Makes you want to fly around everywhere at max continuous power!
Are you suggesting we SHOULD fly at MCT given the TVDs and Gearboxes are effectively considered disposable at inspection? CFIDave helpfully pointed to a new part number for the cylinder head that should fix their issue. Is there a design update pending for TVDs or Gearboxes so they are more likely to pass inspection?

Also, the Fuel Injectors have become an 900hr LLP since Diamond published their overhaul pricing. Are new injectors included in the published OH price or do we need to add them to the overhaul as well as 900hr cost?
I think fuel injectors are included in the OH, but I don't have the Austro mx manual handy to check. Not sure about any TVD or gearbox improvements.

My point on flying at MCP is that it doesn't cost much more per mile. For a 10k gearbox every 600 hours, you'd spend 4% more per mile in fuel and "hourly" gearbox costs between 75% and 92% power, but you'd also travel around 14 knots or 8% faster. For some, a worthwhile marginal gain

And that's not including any failed TVDs
Same as with CD engines - every calculation shows that the cheapest is to run them at MCP. However, that's not always convenient due to possible unnecessary fuel stop needed on longer flight.

Re: 1,800 Hr Inspection Costs

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:12 am
by Davestation
The engines are replaced in entirety, LEPs and all, so the entire engine clock resets at 1800 - no additional flywheel inspections etc.

Re: 1,800 Hr Inspection Costs

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:24 am
by Boatguy
Davestation wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:12 am The engines are replaced in entirety, LEPs and all, so the entire engine clock resets at 1800 - no additional flywheel inspections etc.
Are you referring to TDIs or Austro?