Fuel injector SB (Austro MSB-E4-025)

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CFIDave
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Re: Fuel injector SB (Austro MSB-E4-025)

Post by CFIDave »

jb642DA wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:51 pm Has anyone heard about a "cylinder head" replacement MSB at 900 hours??
What you may have heard about is included in the Austro Engine maintenance manual:

For E4 (marketing term "AE300") engines on the DA40NG (E4A), DA42NG (E4B), or DA42-VI (E4C) there is no recommendation for cylinder head replacement.

However for E4P-C engines (marketing term "AE330") on the DA62, the Recommended Maintenance chart of the Austro maintenance manual includes cylinder heads to be inspected every 300 hours and replaced every 900 hours. But because this chart is included in Chapter 5 and not the Chapter 4 Airworthiness Limitations section that must be approved by EASA or FAA, replacing a head is legally NOT REQUIRED -- it's only "recommended maintenance."

You may recall that when the DA62 was first certified, its AE330 engines had a TBO of only 1000 hours, in contrast to the then-1500 hour TBO of AE300 engines. Shortly thereafter -- based on positive experience with these engines out in the field -- Diamond/Austro extended the TBO to 1800 hours for both the AE300 and AE330.

Because the DA62's AE330 engine can run 6% more turbo boost pressure in the cylinders (180 hp instead of 170 hp for the AE300), and has a MCP (Maximum Continuous Power) that's 95% of 180 hp (vs. 92% MCP of 170 hp for the AE300), Austro chose to be conservative and recommended AE330 cylinder heads be replaced every 900 hours.

But this is just like specifying an engine TBO. In N-registered planes flying under Part 91, replacing a head, just like engine overhaul, is not required at a specific number of hours. If an owner wishes to continue operating the engine past TBO "on condition" (e.g., it's not making metal and compressions are still good), the aircraft can continue to be operated safely.

As more experience is gained with the growing fleet of DA62s, I wouldn't be surprised if Diamond/Austro eliminates the 900 hour AE330 head replacement recommendation so that it match AE300 engines (i.e., no replacement recommended).

I personally don't plan on replacing engine heads on my DA62 when they reach 900 hours.
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Re: Fuel injector SB (Austro MSB-E4-025)

Post by jb642DA »

Thanks for the info Dave.

Does anyone know when Austro put the cylinder head "recommendation" into the engine MX manuals? Doing the injectors, cylinder heads and timing chain at 900 hours is close to doing a TBO, especially cost-wise.

I sure hope the 900 hour "recommendation" goes away. These issues aren't "optional" for any plane being used for other than Pt 91 - ie Part 135 ops. Even if you're not flying Part 135, it certainly helps resale value if the aircraft is maintained to 135 standards.
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Re: Fuel injector SB (Austro MSB-E4-025)

Post by neema »

A little update just to keep this alive. A slug of us will face this soon.

Bought injectors and shop refused to put them in (no 8130s). Benz part number A6400701187, one of two options shown in the Austro Engine mx manual. I need to find a cooler shop.

We have an RPM hunting issue (20-30 rpm and won't stabilize) and looked into the prop governor, which couldn't get serviced in the US, so after sending to Germany for an inspection, we were told it makes sense to spend the money to overhaul rather than IRAN. Didn't fix the issue.

During last annual we swapped injectors from side to side and the problem followed, so I suspect we have a troubled injector(s). Wish I could throw them in ourselves and use Austro Engine Wizard with the new settings for each injector.
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Re: Fuel injector SB (Austro MSB-E4-025)

Post by Boatguy »

neema wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:44 am Bought injectors and shop refused to put them in (no 8130s). Benz part number A6400701187, one of two options shown in the Austro Engine mx manual. I need to find a cooler shop.

We have an RPM hunting issue (20-30 rpm and won't stabilize) and looked into the prop governor, which couldn't get serviced in the US, so after sending to Germany for an inspection, we were told it makes sense to spend the money to overhaul rather than IRAN. Didn't fix the issue.

During last annual we swapped injectors from side to side and the problem followed, so I suspect we have a troubled injector(s). Wish I could throw them in ourselves and use Austro Engine Wizard with the new settings for each injector.
You could try Alpine Aviation in Grass Valley as an alternative to Absolute. I'm going in for my annual at Absolute and intend to raise this issue. And I think as owners we should eventually raise it with DAI.

The picture that Dave posted from the Austro maintenance manual shows "standard" and "anti-wear" injector part numbers. That begs the question of whether an AD would be for just the "standard" part, they can't have the same life. A quick search shows that the MB part is actually BOSCH 0 445 110 323. So we have Bosch making a part, sold to MB, sold to Austro, sold to our local shop. Too many people taking a cut. These parts are available from a variety of auto parts vendors for $250 - $300/each.

FWIW, a marine diesel engine (e.g., Yanmar, Volvo) with 900hrs is considered to be virtually new. In my Mercedes E350 Bluetec diesel, at an average speed of 35mph (sadly the case over 50,000 miles), 900hrs would be just 31,500miles (51.000km). A Mercedes diesel with 31,500 miles would also be considered essentially new. Replacing injectors at 900hrs seems quite odd.
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Re: Fuel injector SB (Austro MSB-E4-025)

Post by Boatguy »

CFIDave wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:09 pm This is no different from installation of Panasonic ECU backup batteries that must be replaced annually, Mercedes oil filters, MANN fuel filters, etc., all of which have the original vendor-specific part numbers listed in Diamond/Austro documents
It sounds like you've done the work on this. Would you willing to post a list of common service parts and their non-Austro vendor/part number equivalent?

I can understand a shop being reluctant to use a non-Austro part, they don't want the liability risk. What if we pushed Austro/DAI to publish an official list of equivalents? They do that with oil already. Why not all consumables?
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Re: Fuel injector SB (Austro MSB-E4-025)

Post by Boatguy »

I took my plane in for the annual yesterday and Absolute Aero told me DAI has a "one time" special price of $600/ea for the injectors for those aircraft impacted by the SB. That's good news for owners who have to make the swap this year, but more clumsy marketing by DAI since all owners will have this problem sooner or later. Why should owners who require this service in 2021, 2022 or beyond pay 2x?
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Re: Fuel injector SB (Austro MSB-E4-025)

Post by neema »

Good to know. I’m still stuck with Benz injectors that no one wants to install that I bought for ~$2000 (for 7).

It’s a shame shops I deal with aren’t treating them like Panasonic batteries, MANN filters, K&N filters, etc
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Re: Fuel injector SB (Austro MSB-E4-025)

Post by RMooney »

A year later, has anyone else gone to DAI to buy injectors at the $600 price, or found a workshop to install Bosch injectors? Perhaps Diamond reads the forum and responds proactively... :o
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Re: Fuel injector SB (Austro MSB-E4-025)

Post by neema »

Didn't have luck with my own A&P or the shop installing our injectors. We have the Austro ECU dongle to input injector codes, and for the sake of science, I wish we did a ground run to see if the engine would run fine on them. The injectors are highly sophisticated pieces of equipment--I'm pretty sure Austro isn't modifying them at all to make them different.

Anyone want to buy the Diamler injectors I bought on the cheap? I have 7 of them

Diamond discounted the injectors for us on this round but it was still $$$
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Re: Fuel injector SB (Austro MSB-E4-025)

Post by michael.g.miller »

Has anyone made any progress convincing an A&P to install the Daimler injectors? I'm coming up on replacement for my DA42, and am petrified by the cost!
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