Finally the Launch??

Any DA50 related topics.

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Charles
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by Charles »

TimS wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:35 pm
Charles wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:01 pm Isn’t that the 3rd DA50 to be announced in the last 10-15 years? There was the DA50 Magnum, then the one with the Ukrainian turboprop, and now this one.

Yawn.
I that there was also one with the IE2 engine?

Tim
Missed that one. Sounds like a great idea though. I get the feeling that Diamond uses the DA50 much like car manufacturers use prototypes: to test ideas in the market and see what sticks in order to integrate them into future products. Like car manufacturer prototypes, I don’t believe Diamond intends to bring the DA50 to market.

That being said, I believe they had taken deposits on the Magnum...
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by CFIDave »

The DA50 has been through so many promised variants that it's difficult to remember them all.

The first version was the pressurized SuperStar shown at Oshkosh 2007 with a 6-cyl. Continental gasoline engine that was cancelled. Diamond was also in discussions with Rotax about another 6-cylinder engine that was also cancelled.

Then a 4-seater Magnum unpressurized version using the then-new Austro AE300 diesel engine was flown in 2010, but it was underpowered with only 168 hp and was cancelled.

Along the way there have been DA50 variants built and flown with a turboprop engine and multiple diesels as Diamond tried to find a suitable power plant.

Diamond finally found a successful powerplant for the plane by using TWO Austro engines -- which became the DA62.

One of the more promising DA50 versions announced (but never built or flown?) was with Lycoming's iE2 FADEC-controlled avgas TEO-540-C1A 6-cylinder engine producing 375 hp. That engine has been flown in the piston version of the experimental Lancair Evolution kit plane. But more importantly, a pair of these engines are now being used in the production Tecnam P2012 Traveler -- a short-haul passenger plane currently entering service with Cape Air in New England as the replacement for their aging fleet of Cessna 402 twins. IMHO, if Diamond would produce a version of the DA50 with this engine (and a parachute or autoland) targeted at the North American market, they might have a real "Cirrus killer."
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Soareyes
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by Soareyes »

TimS wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:16 pm I forgot to mention that the DA-50 has a short thread on COPA. Title DA 50 RG….looks like they are finally releasing their SR22 competitor
So far, more questions than answers. Plus a lot of comments about wing size, and few other factors that do not make sense in the USA or in the market place. My take away is no one knows who is the target market.
The DA50 thread on COPA has 148 posts so far. My post in that thread:

"It appears the DA50’s selling points will be a nice big cabin, burns world available jet fuel and will sell new for less than 1 million USD.

Where avgas is readily available the SR22 has it beat ten ways. But where avgas is a problem, what are the competitors to the DA50? You can go smaller, slower and burn mogas in a Rotax or you can go higher and faster in a turboprop but to match the price it will have to be at least ten years old.

The main competition for the DA50 in that market will be it’s own siblings, the DA42 and the DA62. The 62 has the same cabin, better useful load, range and speed but costs 1.4 million. If you don’t need a big cabin the DA42 is the best performer of the three in terms of take-off distance, rate of climb and cruise speed and can be had new for less than a mill.

If they price the DA50 similar to the DA42 it will be interesting to see what the market prefers, cabin vs. performance. Or they could add a unique feature like Autoland and see if it helps sales like the parachute does Cirrus."

Addendum: I will bet that in the DA50 vs. DA42 contest the market will prefer the nicer cabin, as long as there is no difference in the perceived safety. Difficulty obtaining and maintaining multi-engine proficiency is another factor working in the 50's favor.
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by MackAttack »

I am also a fan of the Lycoming IE2 engine; but apparently, only a couple people ever ordered the Evolution with the piston engine, and one of them opted to upgrade it to a turbine engine shortly thereafter. The LX7 aircraft uses a Continental in their piston version (of an updated Lancair IVP) and in addition to turbine options and I think they are running 2/3 turbine, 1/3 pistons.

Lycoming initially developed the IE2 engine thinking they could sell it to Piper for their Mirage/M350 airplanes ... but Piper apparently has zero interest. I did a Piper factory tour in the fall of 2018 and asked that very question - and the answer was "no way, no how" but they would not elaborate. It's unfortunate in many respects because a single-lever, piston FADEC version of the TIO540 would be even more reliable than the current version. However, one caution - the IE2 will run according to how Lyc programs the engine software, which means no LOP operations. That's a bit of a bugaboo with Lycoming and piston Mirages/M350s as a result. Many pilots feel that running that engine ROP or at peak shortens cylinder life, among other issues. In the FADEC, pilots would not have the option.

However, this engine would NOT be a good choice for the DA50 unless Diamond put in much larger fuel tanks. The TIO 540 in the Piper M-class runs at north of 20 gph, which wouldn't work so well with a 50-gallon tank ...
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by AndrewM »

Dan, pricing of course will be interesting. I think a few folks have opined that the price will land somewhere between the DA42 and DA62. If that is the case, we are looking at US$1.2m'ish with the usual options on top of a base price...

I think people purchase a twin for different reasons to a single. I flew a DA42 and really liked it, but on reflection it was not really that much faster than a DA40, the cabin is no bigger, useful load not much more, so the question is why go to a DA42? The security of the second engine. And that is how Diamond markets their twins on their web site... "The security of the second engine".
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by Colin »

If I had known how much simpler, smoother, and stable the DA42 was over my DA40 was then I would have moved over three years sooner. I had been in a test flight, but my training really told me a different story than one flight. And owning it the first year was a bit of a surprise. Buying JetA at 3.16 when people were paying 5.50 for 110LL was so strange.
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by ememic99 »

Colin wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:43 pm Buying JetA at 3.16 when people were paying 5.50 for 110LL was so strange.
You can imagine Europe where gallon of 100LL used to be $12 (or more) while JetA was $5. The prices these days are much lower ($7.60 vs $3.40) but the ratio is pretty much the same.
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by Tommy »

What I find somewhat befuddling is people buying a million dollar plus diesel driven aircraft, going 50 kts. slower than a 300K 100LL aircraft and getting all excited over saving a few dollars per gallon difference in fuel. 🤦‍♂️
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by ememic99 »

300k plane which flies 230 ktas is probably 30 years old and has totally outdated avionics. BTW 100LL is not available in some parts of Europe especially at larger airports.
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by Tommy »

Well, not quite. I do have a 600k Aerostar that will do 250 kts. with ease with state of the art all Garmin TXI XI avionics including zero time rebuilt counter rotating engines. The airframe is 40 years old and completely rebuilt. The whole process was pretty much along the lines of what Nextant Aerospace does. That being said, I do suck 40 to 45 gph at 230 -250 kts tas. Going fast is not cheap. Apparently going slow is not either. Just depends when you want to pay, now or later. I prefer going fast now and paying later as opposed to going slow now and paying for it up front. Doesn’t make sense to me unless of course 100LL is just not available.
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