Finally the Launch??

Any DA50 related topics.

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AndrewM
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Finally the Launch??

Post by AndrewM »

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Rich
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by Rich »

They do need to fix this typo on the page:

Spacious Luxury meets High Tech and Rectrable Gear

But certainly looks enticing for those with the bucks. :thumbsup:
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by Steve »

Could have picked a different tail number. VSO - stall speed in landing configuration? Maybe VNO? But otherwise looks like a beautiful airplane. Maybe if I win the lottery...
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by AndrewM »

Looks sensational, however seems they do not have a 'chute, even as an option. I think that was a huge mistake. I know many on this forum will disagree with me on this but from a commercial standpoint Cirrus sells gazzilions of SRxx due to the chute. Diamond could have really taken some meaningful share from them, and now they will not. What a miss.
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by Pehu »

AndrewM wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:59 pm
Looks sensational, however seems they do not have a 'chute, even as an option. I think that was a huge mistake. I know many on this forum will disagree with me on this but from a commercial standpoint Cirrus sells gazzilions of SRxx due to the chute. Diamond could have really taken some meaningful share from them, and now they will not. What a miss.
Or expedite getting the Garmin Autoland on their planes. I would assume this can be turned to strong marketing message. To my understanding Diamond's comparable fatality numbers are lower than Cirrus' even thou it has the chute.

I would really like to see this technology expedited to all diamonds. Yes, I understand autoland doesn't save you if the engine dies, but with pilot incapacitation it surely helps. Not sure it could be tuned also to bring the plane down as an emergency landing too?
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by arel »

Pehu wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:33 pm
AndrewM wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:59 pm
Looks sensational, however seems they do not have a 'chute, even as an option. I think that was a huge mistake. I know many on this forum will disagree with me on this but from a commercial standpoint Cirrus sells gazzilions of SRxx due to the chute. Diamond could have really taken some meaningful share from them, and now they will not. What a miss.
Or expedite getting the Garmin Autoland on their planes. I would assume this can be turned to strong marketing message. To my understanding Diamond's comparable fatality numbers are lower than Cirrus' even thou it has the chute.

I would really like to see this technology expedited to all diamonds. Yes, I understand autoland doesn't save you if the engine dies, but with pilot incapacitation it surely helps. Not sure it could be tuned also to bring the plane down as an emergency landing too?
The autoland feature requires auto-throttles.
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by caseyayers »

Is there anything on the market presently that really serves as a good comparison to this? The speed, efficiency, and useful load combination seem like an almost perfect mix, if the provisional numbers stand.
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by CFIDave »

A couple of first impressions of the DA50 announcement, particularly when compared to the DA62 with which it shares many components:

1. The performance is disappointing for a plane with retractable gear and turbocharged engine. It's closer to a Bonanza (ancient design also with retractable gear) than the fixed gear SR22T that may be its primary competitor. With maximum continuous power (MCP) of only 270 hp, the engine can't be run at more than 90% power except for takeoff. From the advertised performance, I'm guessing that the CD-300 engine must have a much lower critical altitude (where it can make full power) than Austro engines, so there's not enough power up high for the DA50 to reach anywhere close to 200 knots TAS.
2. The useful load seems to be artificially limited due to a max gross weight of 1999 kg to reduce European IFR ATC fees. The advertised standard useful load is about 100 lbs below the 1350 lb useful load of my fully-optioned DA62, although the DA50 likely carries less fuel (50 gal tanks?). When the DA50 is fully optioned with air conditioning, etc. I would imagine its useful load would be much less. Perhaps when the DA50 is FAA certified, it could offer a max gross weight somewhat closer to the DA62's 2300 kg.
3. The more-complex Fowler flaps may have been needed to permit the DA50 to meet the FAA's 61 knot stall speed certification limit on single-engine piston aircraft (particularly if the DA50 supports a higher max gross weight when it becomes FAA certified.)
4. The front windscreen seems to be attached with multiple rivets/screws/fasteners that aren't used on the DA62 windscreen. And there's a vertical structural brace/center pillar bisecting the windscreen that's not needed on the DA62. I'm guessing that the CD-300 torque and cowling shake when shutting down the engine (as with Lycoming DA40s) makes these additional items necessary for structural integrity and fuselage rigidity.
5. The DA50 appears to include a nicely-integrated climate control system in the center console that's a major improvement over the DA62's totally separate air conditioning vs. heating/defrost system with manual cable-operated controls. It would be nice to see this system carry over into the DA62's design.
6. The website hints at Beringer anti-lock brakes that may be included on the DA50. (These are already available as a DA42 option). The Cleveland brakes on my and some other DA62s have been problematic due to dragging brake pads that quickly wear out the pads and rotors, so it would be great to see the DA50's new brakes also become available on the DA62.

Without pricing info, we can't yet determine value.

Overall, I don't see the DA50 competing very well with Cirrus, except in those parts of the world where JetA is the only readily-available fuel. The DA50 is more spacious, and likely handles better and is more fun to fly given its Diamond DNA. But it's missing an airframe parachute (proven critical for spouse acceptance), insurance rates with the retractable gear are likely to be higher, and it uses a relatively unproven engine that few shops will know how to service.

I'm still glad to own a DA62. :)
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by waynemcc999 »

AndrewM wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:59 pm
Looks sensational, however seems they do not have a 'chute, even as an option. I think that was a huge mistake. I know many on this forum will disagree with me on this but from a commercial standpoint Cirrus sells gazzilions of SRxx due to the chute. Diamond could have really taken some meaningful share from them, and now they will not. What a miss.
I agree with Andrew... to me it seems quite foolish (und stur?) to not include an optional airframe parachute.
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Re: Finally the Launch??

Post by Chris »

CFIDave wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:31 pm
1. The performance is disappointing for a plane with retractable gear and turbocharged engine. [...] there's not enough power up high for the DA50 to reach anywhere close to 200 knots TAS.
2. [...] When the DA50 is fully optioned with air conditioning, etc. I would imagine its useful load would be much less. Perhaps when the DA50 is FAA certified, it could offer a max gross weight somewhat closer to the DA62's 2300 kg.

[...]

Without pricing info, we can't yet determine value.

Overall, I don't see the DA50 competing very well with Cirrus, except in those parts of the world where JetA is the only readily-available fuel. The DA50 is more spacious, and likely handles better and is more fun to fly given its Diamond DNA. But it's missing an airframe parachute (proven critical for spouse acceptance), insurance rates with the retractable gear are likely to be higher, and it uses a relatively unproven engine that few shops will know how to service.
While I don't care much about the lack of 'chute other than it being an impediment to higher sales volume, the points Dave made above match my first impression upon reading the webpage. Perhaps they'll come up with some improvements in a -VI version at some point, but as released it doesn't seem terribly exciting. It will be interesting to see how it's priced.
Chris
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