Why would anyone buy a $1,400,000 twin piston?
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- wjunius
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Why would anyone buy a $1,400,000 twin piston?
I’ve owned a DA-40 for 5 years and want something bigger and faster. I cannot figure out the thought process on purchasing a $1,400,000 DA-62 when you can buy a 2007 Eclipse for $750,000. I realize the operating expenses of the 62 will likely be less but does that make up for paying nearly double in acquisition costs? Can someone please enlighten me? Thanks.
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Re: Why would anyone buy a $1,400,000 twin piston?
It certainly would be interesting to see a 5 year side-by-side financial comparison for say 200hrs per year, factoring in cost of capital, fuel, recurrent training, maintenance, insurance, hanger, landing fees and so on.
- wjunius
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Re: Why would anyone buy a $1,400,000 twin piston?
I would guess that a plane that is twice as fast is flown half as many hours. Or you just fly twice as far.
- chili4way
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Re: Why would anyone buy a $1,400,000 twin piston?
How much bigger? How much faster? What kind of weather? Into what size airports? It all depends on your primary mission profile and of course affordability.
As to the 2007 Eclispe 500 vs. 2020 DA62: Beyond the ~5X fuel costs (78 GPH vs. 16 GPH), there are MX costs, overhaul reserves, and insurance. There's also the cost to obtain the type rating (and recurring training), in addition to the common need to get a multi-engine certificate. But this gets you a 2X cruise speed difference of ~370 KTAS vs ~185+ KTAS.
The avionic system "eras" are also substantially different. Avio NG vs. Garmin G1000 NXI Phase II.
The next step up beyond a DA62 is probably a single-engine Turboprop, and that's a pretty big step up even for used ones (that aren't "projects"). It all depends on your missions. The relationship between cost and speed is not linear!
- wjunius
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Re: Why would anyone buy a $1,400,000 twin piston?
A friend of mine flies an Eclipse corporately. Here are some numbers besides acquisition cost:
Insurance: $14,000 annually
Recurrent training : $14,000 annually
Hourly cost (wet): $800. He claims this includes reserves. The jet burns 90 gal/hr the first hour then 60 gal/hr afterwards.
I’m not sure of annual maintenance costs. The plane has scheduled maintenance and not regular annuals like we are used to. I’m looking that up.
DA-62
Insurance: I’m assuming 1% of hull value, $14,000
Hourly cost (wet): I’m guessing with reserve at least $350-400/hour.
Annual cost: I’m assuming $10,000 for an annual.
Don’t forget that there is no way the 62 is going to retain its value in the long run. If kept for 8-10 years I would think the 62 would lose at least 30-40% of its value. The eclipse has probably depreciated as much as it will.
Although the eclipse does cost more to operate, it gets to the destination in half the time. The $700,000 difference in acquisition cost buys a lot of fuel. Also, I suspect that the 62 owner will lose around $600,000 to depreciation over the ownership period.
This is what I’m calculating, I would like to know if I’m way off and what’s wrong with my logic. I’m also suspecting that most are writing off their aircraft as part of their business. The economics are way different for a personally owned and financed aircraft vs a business financed aircraft. Thanks for the input.
Insurance: $14,000 annually
Recurrent training : $14,000 annually
Hourly cost (wet): $800. He claims this includes reserves. The jet burns 90 gal/hr the first hour then 60 gal/hr afterwards.
I’m not sure of annual maintenance costs. The plane has scheduled maintenance and not regular annuals like we are used to. I’m looking that up.
DA-62
Insurance: I’m assuming 1% of hull value, $14,000
Hourly cost (wet): I’m guessing with reserve at least $350-400/hour.
Annual cost: I’m assuming $10,000 for an annual.
Don’t forget that there is no way the 62 is going to retain its value in the long run. If kept for 8-10 years I would think the 62 would lose at least 30-40% of its value. The eclipse has probably depreciated as much as it will.
Although the eclipse does cost more to operate, it gets to the destination in half the time. The $700,000 difference in acquisition cost buys a lot of fuel. Also, I suspect that the 62 owner will lose around $600,000 to depreciation over the ownership period.
This is what I’m calculating, I would like to know if I’m way off and what’s wrong with my logic. I’m also suspecting that most are writing off their aircraft as part of their business. The economics are way different for a personally owned and financed aircraft vs a business financed aircraft. Thanks for the input.
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Re: Why would anyone buy a $1,400,000 twin piston?
Will, take a look at the attached link if you have not already done so: https://www.aircraftcostcalculator.com/ ... clipse+500
- wjunius
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Re: Why would anyone buy a $1,400,000 twin piston?
I’ve seen that. Here is one for the 62.
https://www.aircraftcostcalculator.com/ ... mond+DA+62
It’s a good ballpark but still comparing apples and oranges. The eclipse assumes $395,000 down payment while the 62 assumes a $580,000 down payment. That’s a big difference.
Also, it assumes $5/gal fuel for the 62 and $4.25 for the eclipse. I realize that is in the favor of the 62. But there are in accuracies. Also, I’ll bet they use manufacturers performance numbers. Those never work out in the real world.
I don’t think this takes into account the entire cost of ownership from purchase to eventual sale.
https://www.aircraftcostcalculator.com/ ... mond+DA+62
It’s a good ballpark but still comparing apples and oranges. The eclipse assumes $395,000 down payment while the 62 assumes a $580,000 down payment. That’s a big difference.
Also, it assumes $5/gal fuel for the 62 and $4.25 for the eclipse. I realize that is in the favor of the 62. But there are in accuracies. Also, I’ll bet they use manufacturers performance numbers. Those never work out in the real world.
I don’t think this takes into account the entire cost of ownership from purchase to eventual sale.
- chili4way
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Re: Why would anyone buy a $1,400,000 twin piston?
Another consideration for the personally owned model: You can set up a shared access/shared cost arrangement (ref: Diamond Share or similar) for a piston airplane more easily than for a turbine-powered airplane. It won't make sense if you're a "full time" 400 hours+ user of the airplane or if you're located in an area with relatively few pilots.
If you want to talk to someone about MX programs for the Eclipse and the DA62, give the folks at Piston Power a call. They provide similar "per hour" comprehensive MX programs for both piston and turbine airplanes. They can speak to MX costs for scheduled, unscheduled, and engine/hot-section reserves.
What missions are you contemplating, i.e. people/range, and how regularly?
If you want to talk to someone about MX programs for the Eclipse and the DA62, give the folks at Piston Power a call. They provide similar "per hour" comprehensive MX programs for both piston and turbine airplanes. They can speak to MX costs for scheduled, unscheduled, and engine/hot-section reserves.
What missions are you contemplating, i.e. people/range, and how regularly?
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Re: Why would anyone buy a $1,400,000 twin piston?
I wouldn't touch an eclipse with a ten foot pole! A buddy of mine has one. He just had to replace a pitot mast at a cost of $20K.
Now a King Air for 750K and we are talking!
Now a King Air for 750K and we are talking!
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Re: Why would anyone buy a $1,400,000 twin piston?
Why compare an older Eclipse with a factory-new DA62? There are already some used DA62s which are listed for 20-30% less than new. While still comparing apples and oranges, at least that takes some of the lopsided depreciation out of the equation (since the Eclipse listed new for somewhere north of $1.5M, IIRC).wjunius wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:16 pm I’ve owned a DA-40 for 5 years and want something bigger and faster. I cannot figure out the thought process on purchasing a $1,400,000 DA-62 when you can buy a 2007 Eclipse for $750,000. I realize the operating expenses of the 62 will likely be less but does that make up for paying nearly double in acquisition costs? Can someone please enlighten me? Thanks.
If you are flying long distances into larger airports and can afford the higher annual costs of ownership, then the Eclipse may make a lot more sense. I know DA62 owners who have transitioned to a jet for just this reason. Some folks just want to occasionally pile the family and ski gear in the plane and head to a resort that's a few hundred miles away, and for them the DA62 is cheaper and easier to operate while getting the job done comfortably.