New Owner - advice on configuration

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slowbird
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Re: New Owner - advice on configuration

Post by slowbird »

Hi Octavian

Just for info, I would have echoed your thoughts on Air Conditioning, mainly because it's a few months of the year, and once you are airborne it doesn't matter too much. Also, never had it in the DA42 and that worked just fine.

However, made the switch to a DA62 and bought one already configured with AC - and while I would never have added to the spec from new, it turns out to be brilliant. If you are IFR flying in Europe, it's not uncommon to wait on the ground with engines running for your take-off slot - and without AC the cabin will get hot and sticky pretty quickly.

With the DA42 you can just crack the canopy open and it has a special lock position to hold it open giving some airflow. You can't do that in a DA62 with the gull wing doors. So AC is a life saver on the ground in anything above 20°C.

Now I've experienced AC, I wouldn't trade it. It all depends on your budget, but you mind find it makes the whole experience more comfortable.
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Re: New Owner - advice on configuration

Post by nworthin »

As I'm considering purchasing a DA62, I'd like to revive this thread.

For my configuration, I've definitely decided on:

Active Traffic
On board radar
Syn Vision
ADS-B
Flightstream
69A XM weather/audio
A/C
TKS
3rd row & cargo tray

Definitely leaving off:

Stormscope
Iridium
Keypad (I prefer Foreflight and Flightstream)
Jeppesen charts
Seat covers (will get aftermarket)
Preheater
Canopy cover (will get after market)
Engine cover (may get aftermarket)
Jetshades (will purchase directly at Sun n Fun)

But, I am on the fence with regard to two items and I'm asking for opinions:

1. Tablet mount. From what I have seen, this is actually in a bit of an awkward spot and it seems to me that a suction cup mount on the window would work even better. I've seen both. Comments?

2. Onboard O2. It seems quite expensive and, perhaps even more importantly, quite heavy (31 lbs). I'm thinking of a combining a portable tank setup with an O2D2 plus a couple of Inogen Aviator O2 concentrators. Concentrators for front seat folks, bottle for 2nd row folks (or as backup to front seat). Saves over $15,000 and about 25lbs. Any thoughts (other than perceived "resale" value?)
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Re: New Owner - advice on configuration

Post by TimS »

Norm,

Since you mentioned flying to the Caribbean in the other thread, curious why you would not want the safety of the Iridium being built in?
(I personally would go with a portable solution, just makes more economical sense, but I figured I would ask).

Tim
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Re: New Owner - advice on configuration

Post by nworthin »

TimS wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:10 pm Norm,

Since you mentioned flying to the Caribbean in the other thread, curious why you would not want the safety of the Iridium being built in?
(I personally would go with a portable solution, just makes more economical sense, but I figured I would ask).

Tim
You got it. Portable. Does double duty on the boat. Plus Garmin InReach (and EPIRB).
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Re: New Owner - advice on configuration

Post by VickersPilot »

Talk to your broker about resale without 02. I suspect you’ll find the choice is (a) paying for it now (b) paying more for it at resale. Besides, you’ll probably recover 75% at resale so the true cost is circa $5-$6k... not worth messing with the resale for that amount but broker or CFIDave will be best able to advise.
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Re: New Owner - advice on configuration

Post by CFIDave »

Looking at your options choices:

- Leave off the TAS605 Active Traffic. I got it on my plane back in 2017 because I was forced to wait until 2020 for the GTX345R transponder (with ADS-B IN traffic) to finally be certified for the DA62. But now that I have both types of traffic systems, the active traffic is practically worthless. ADS-B traffic is SO much more accurate and (unlike active traffic) draws vectors on the screens to show the direction that traffic is moving. In the US it's very rare to ever encounter a target that is transponder equipped, but doesn't have ADS-B Out installed -- or isn't picked up and relayed by an ADS-B ground station. Save yourself $19,190.

- If you're getting the 3rd row of seating, why would you order the cargo tray for a 5-seater? In our experience, the only people ordering the cargo tray are those owners who acquired a 7-seater but needed to later convert to a 5-seater to fly under BasicMed. You can't easily switch back and forth -- it requires a mechanic to perform the conversion with a logbook sign-off.

- The RAM tablet mount provisions on the A-pillars (between front windscreen and the doors) are essential if you're going to use your iPad running Foreflight and a FlightStream 510 card, especially if you're going to forgo the GCU 476 center console keypad (which I agree with -- we never use it). The A-pillars are actually a great iPad mounting location that works well in the DA62.

- I have the built-in O2 tank and use it in combination with a Mountain High O2D2 pulse-demand system -- so the built-in O2 supply lasts "forever" and we don't have to worry about hauling tanks around. It's always there if you need it. You may also hurt the resale value of your plane without this option.
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Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
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Re: New Owner - advice on configuration

Post by nworthin »

CFIDave wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:45 pm Looking at your options choices:

- Leave off the TAS605 Active Traffic. I got it on my plane back in 2017 because I was forced to wait until 2020 for the GTX345R transponder (with ADS-B IN traffic) to finally be certified for the DA62. But now that I have both types of traffic systems, the active traffic is practically worthless. ADS-B traffic is SO much more accurate and (unlike active traffic) draws vectors on the screens to show the direction that traffic is moving. In the US it's very rare to ever encounter a target that is transponder equipped, but doesn't have ADS-B Out installed -- or isn't picked up and relayed by an ADS-B ground station. Save yourself $19,190.

- The RAM tablet mount provisions on the A-pillars (between front windscreen and the doors) are essential if you're going to use your iPad running Foreflight and a FlightStream 510 card, especially if you're going to forgo the GCU 476 center console keypad (which I agree with -- we never use it). The A-pillars are actually a great iPad mounting location that works well in the DA62.

- I have the built-in O2 tank and use it in combination with a Mountain High O2D2 pulse-demand system -- so the built-in O2 supply lasts "forever" and we don't have to worry about hauling tanks around. It's always there if you need it. You may also hurt the resale value of your plane without this option.
On Active Traffic, I don't think this is an either/or decision. The Garmin active traffic system augments the ADSB system. You don't see duplicated targets but you don't miss any either (at least those with a transponder). I've had this confirmed by several avionics installers. I had this combo on the PC-12 and it worked well on a G600Txi and I assume it will work just as well on the G1000. I'm not sure if the ground station installations have improved over the years but I had several close calls flying about 10 years ago in an ADSB equipped plane without active traffic. Because I wanted to make sure I had this all correct, I took a look at Aviation Consumer. In a March 2019 article, this is what they had to say (emphasis mine): "It is true that TAS can show a transponder-only equipped target directly, whereas an ADS-B In equipped aircraft without TAS must see it with TIS-B, which only works in radar and GBT coverage. This is the primary advantage of TAS systems. A shortcoming of TAS, however, is that it does not compute course and speed (velocity vector) for targets; TAS only shows position. This limits the information available to pilots and limits the ability of TA (traffic alert) algorithms to accurately determine potential conflict. This is why adding ADS-B In to these systems can significantly enhance their performance, since ADS-B received directly is both more accurate than TAS-derived positions and contains velocity vector information."

Dave, you are quite correct that the TAS systems don't show vectors but, to the extent that the G1000 does show those vectors for the ADSB targets and warns of the (additional) TAS ones, I see value in adding the TAS system. The Aviation Consumer writer, however, does go on to note that this advantage may diminish in the future.

On tablet mount provisions, I'll take your advice. I've seen photos of both approaches (RAM ball mount on pillar and suction cup mount on side window) and the suction cup approach looked to place the iPad in a slightly better -- if not as secure -- position.

On built-in O2, I've never heard anything but good things about the O2D2 system. But I think you missed my comment about the Inogen O2 concentrator option. (https://www.inogenaviator.com/). It's a tiny and lightweight device, provides unlimited O2 and is certified to 18,000. And you can buy 4 of them for $14,000 less than the onboard O2 (actually more like $18,000 less if you add in the cost of a 4-place O2D2 set up for the DA62). It saves 12lbs of useful load (assuming a 4-place setup) and it delivers humidified O2 (no more bloody noses). Runs on batteries (many hours per charge) but can also be run from ship power. I was thinking of having a small tank if I ever flew with the 5th passenger (I already have this from past adventures - just need to get the tank pressure tested). An unconventional approach, I know, but I'm not sure I see a down side. Lots of flexibility, no refill hassles and I would never think twice about using O2 above 8k especially at night.
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Re: New Owner - advice on configuration

Post by Soareyes »

Some thoughts about oxygen: It makes a difference where you are based and what services are available locally. I left it out of my new DA42.

Filling: Built-in: Oxygen service is just not available at our home field. Portable tank: I fill it myself using welder's oxygen; cheap, quick and easy. I assume a built-in tank could be self serviced if you had the proper fitting or do you have to be a mechanic for that?

Maintenance: Built-in: Required inspection$ during service events. Portable tank: What tank? Ease of five year inspection: Built-in: Must be done at a place that services aircraft. Portable: Send it to any inexpensive place that inspects welding/medical/diving tanks. Something breaks: Easier to repair or replace portable hardware.

W&B: Nice to have the flexibility of the portable tank and the Inogen concentrators.

Room in the cockpit: Built-in is obviously better.

Agree that O2D2 is essential if using bottled oxygen.

We have a couple of Inogen G5s and a portable bottle and an O2D2. Since getting the Inogens we haven't used the portable tank.
Current: DA42-V1

Previous: Hang gliders, Paraglider, DA40(x3), Cessna 150 Aerobat, SR22
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Re: New Owner - advice on configuration

Post by nworthin »

Soareyes wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:12 am We have a couple of Inogen G5s and a portable bottle and an O2D2. Since getting the Inogens we haven't used the portable tank.
Dan, great PIREP on Inogen and aux O2 with O2D2. Just what I was thinking about doing and it's great to learn I'm not the only one out here thinking these kind of crazy and unconventional thoughts!

If you don't mind, a coupla questions:

1. For Inogen, do you find you use it more often that you might if using bottled (on board or aux)?
2. Where do you "mount" the concentrators? Is it convenient?
3. Is the O2D2 just for the bottled O2? (I think probably but want to check).
4. Have you had any problems or serious inconveniences using the Inogen devices?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: New Owner - advice on configuration

Post by Boatguy »

I looked at the Inogen and was put off by the need to recharge outside the plane. Are you driving it from onboard power?
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