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Re: The 1,000 Pound 1,000 Mile Challenge

Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:39 pm
by Boatguy
Antoine wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:43 pm
My God... 1000 NM at 162 KTAS with a canula up everyone's nose? Thats's 6 hours plus.
Enough time for the canulas to grow leaves and maybe even small berries! No thanks.
I might get shot down in flames for this, but honestly you have to be an aviation addict to fly above 10'000 feet over a long distance without pressurization.
Try a PA46 with extended range tanks and LOP operation. Not as efficient but pressurized...
Maybe you have the wrong cannula. I use the Mountain High boom and it’s no more uncomfortable than a headset mic.

Re: The 1,000 Pound 1,000 Mile Challenge

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:19 am
by CFIDave
ultraturtle wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:35 pm
...a hypothetical DA62 with book useful load of 1,565
Sadly, 1565 lbs for a DA62 useful load is hypothetical, because it reflects a base model with no options -- a plane that doesn't exist in the real world.

Almost all DA62s sold (in North America, at least) are heavily optioned with TKS de-ice, air conditioning, built-in O2, 7 seats, etc. Buyers that can afford a new DA62 order them with most of the options for $1.4M. So most DA62s typically have a useful load of about 1350 lbs.

And I know of few DA62 pilots (and their passengers!) that will tolerate more than about a 4 hour flight, due to certain bodily functions. So a "real-world" trip might consist of 4 hours @ 190 knots burning about 18 gph = 720 miles, burning 72 of the plane's 86 gallons of fuel. Fuel will weigh 86 gal X 6.7 lbs = 576 lbs. Subracting 576 lbs full fuel from 1350 lbs useful load leaves a payload for passengers and bags of 773 lbs.

So not as optimistic a picture, but more than adequate to meet my needs. (And chances are that if you put 4+ people in the plane you're really only going to make 3 hour maximum hops for passenger "comfort," so you can carry a larger payload.)

Re: The 1,000 Pound 1,000 Mile Challenge

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:13 am
by Tommy
Aerostar 600 : mine. 5,700 lbs. gross
Useful load = 1,801 lbs.
Full fuel with auxiliary tank 210 gal. @ 6 lbs. = 1,260 lbs.
Useful load after full fuel = 540 lbs.
210 gal. @ 31 gph = 6.77 hrs. Less ifr reserve = 6.0 hrs. @ 195 tas @ 2,300 rpm @ 10,000’ msl = 1,170 miles
Std. day no cannoli’s real world numbers running rop.

Re: The 1,000 Pound 1,000 Mile Challenge

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:12 pm
by Tommy
I can’t get down to 162 kts., however, I can get down to 180 kts. @ 21 gph ff @ 15,000’ msl with a full fuel range of 9 hrs. including reserve for 1,620 miles. Or, I can carry 1,000 lbs. of people and gear for 5 1/2 hrs. @ 180 kts. including reserve for 990 miles. I’ll bet I could squeeze out another 10 miles and still maintain my reserve. :D We would have to have cannoli’s stuck up our noses however. :roll:

Re: The 1,000 Pound 1,000 Mile Challenge

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:43 pm
by Antoine
Tommy wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:12 pm
I can’t get down to 162 kts
:D

Re: The 1,000 Pound 1,000 Mile Challenge

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:42 pm
by ultraturtle
CFIDave wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:19 am
ultraturtle wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:35 pm
...a hypothetical DA62 with book useful load of 1,565
Sadly, 1565 lbs for a DA62 useful load is hypothetical, because it reflects a base model with no options -- a plane that doesn't exist in the real world.
An M600 with a useful load of 2,400 is hypothetical as well, and no such plane exists in the real world. In order to cut through the haze of anecdotal numbers, the challenge was set based on manufacturer book numbers. The numbers themselves are not as important as the comparison. The question is really, what is the next step up aircraft currently being manufactured that can carry an equivalent or greater load an equivalent or greater distance? The 1,000/1,000 book numbers stand to establish a minimum, and keep it objective.

So far, it looks like the next step up is a mighty big one. Subtracting 1,000 lbs from Piper's marketing claim of 2,400 lb useful load for the M600 leaves 209 gallons of fuel. It takes 211 gallons for the M600 to fly 1,000 miles at max cruise with 45 minutes reserve, so the pilot would need back off slightly from the 274 KTAS max cruise speed, but it can be done.

I'm just a little surprised that there seems to be nothing currently being built to serve the market between these two aircraft on the range/payload performance spectrum.

Re: The 1,000 Pound 1,000 Mile Challenge

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:28 pm
by TimS
How many planes are sold, and those companies are barely making money?
There just is not enough volume/market.

Tim