DA62 down in Dubai

Any DA62 related topics

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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by Colin » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:36 pm

Per flight hour and per plane this might make the DA62 the deadliest Diamond model.
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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by NDCDA62 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:56 pm

Assuming the initial report and assumption is correct, which appears more than likely in view of video footage taken at the time, I wonder just how the statistics are treated when (i) It was carrying out a low level, higher than normal risk, commercial operation; and (ii) the accident was a result of an external force which overwhelmed the aircraft.
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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by Rick » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:00 pm

Has anyone found or seen the video? I'm guessing it's maybe only available to the investigation team right now, but I just wondered.
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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by ememic99 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:31 am

NDCDA62 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:56 pm
Assuming the initial report and assumption is correct, which appears more than likely in view of video footage taken at the time, I wonder just how the statistics are treated when (i) It was carrying out a low level, higher than normal risk, commercial operation; and (ii) the accident was a result of an external force which overwhelmed the aircraft.
I was also wondering how such accident fits to statistics (assuming wake turbulence was the cause) because it practically doesn't relate to any airframe/engine malfunction or crew decision. I don't know if that's correct but one airliner pilot told me that in case of parallel runways with displaced threshold even ATC doesn't have the obligation to pay attention on possible wake turbulence because it's not considered as possible.
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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by jb642DA » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:24 pm

ememic99 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:31 am
NDCDA62 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:56 pm
Assuming the initial report and assumption is correct, which appears more than likely in view of video footage taken at the time, I wonder just how the statistics are treated when (i) It was carrying out a low level, higher than normal risk, commercial operation; and (ii) the accident was a result of an external force which overwhelmed the aircraft.
I was also wondering how such accident fits to statistics (assuming wake turbulence was the cause) because it practically doesn't relate to any airframe/engine malfunction or crew decision. I don't know if that's correct but one airliner pilot told me that in case of parallel runways with displaced threshold even ATC doesn't have the obligation to pay attention on possible wake turbulence because it's not considered as possible.
As seen many times in NTSB accident reports regarding "wake turbulence", we will probably see something similar to the following...

"The NTSB determined that the probable cause of this accident was an encounter with wake turbulence, which resulted in the pilot's loss of control of the airplane...." or

".....CAUSE: The pilot's inadequate planned approach and his failure to follow wake turbulence avoidance procedures by not staying above the glide-path of the preceding Boeing 757, which resulted in a vortex turbulence encounter. Contributing to the accident was the wake turbulence, and night conditions."

(You can find many examples by searching the data base, I just picked 2 for use as examples)

Usually, the PIC is "blamed" and his/her "lack of planning to avoid" is a CAUSE (in the accident report).

Here's some interesting info re: wake turbulence located in the AIM -
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publica ... ion_3.html
Take a look specifically at how the wake turbulence sinks and how it moves "with the wind".

Here's a link on "avoidance" with some decent graphics -
https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly ... urbulence/
Last edited by jb642DA on Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by jb642DA » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:54 pm

I'm sorry about "hijacking" the DA62 down in Dubai, but "wake turbulence" is a very important issue.
I think a lot of us do not constantly consider the dangers associated with it.

It doesn't take a "Super" (A380) to upset our aircraft. Flying through the wake turbulence of a same-sized airplane (relative to what we are flying) can "upset" us too!!

Here's one more good reference about wake turbulence from the FAA -

"AC 90-23G - Aircraft Wake Turbulence
Date Issued February 10, 2014
This advisory circular (AC) presents basic information on wake vortex behavior, alerts pilots to the hazards of aircraft wake turbulence, and recommends operational procedures to avoid wake turbulence encounters.
"
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/medi ... 90-23G.pdf
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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by ememic99 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:24 pm

jb642DA wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:24 pm
Usually, the PIC is "blamed" and his/her "lack of planning to avoid" is a CAUSE (in the accident report).
I'm not sure this can be the case here because I somehow doubt that pilot was informed about the activities going on parallel runway, so I doubt he had some basis for decision making. IMHO it's more like this case https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 20170107-0 which triggered increasing distances even en-route.

I hope we'll see precise info in final report.

BTW Thanks for links provided.
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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by jb642DA » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:12 pm

I'm not sure about accident reports in other parts of the world, but the (US) NTSB uses that as a cause when wake turbulence is a factor. Basically, in the US, wake turbulence avoidance is the pilot's responsibility.

I'm not sure about specific procedures at other ATC facilities around the world, but I've received "wake turbulence" advisories (either via ATC or ATIS) in Europe and the Far East. However, I've never flown into Dubai.

Anyway, the loss of this DA62 is very tragic - Someone will be "blamed"!
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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by Keith M » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:06 pm

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Re: DA62 down in Dubai

Post by NDCDA62 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:55 am

Thanks Keith -

An interesting article below also from Gulf Business

Dubai plane in fatal crash was flying ‘too close’ to larger aircraft – investigation
All the four people on board the small plane died when it crashed last month

Aviation

A preliminary investigation into a plane crash near Dubai airport that killed all four people onboard in May has found that the plane was flying too close to a larger aircraft.

The small Diamond DA62 aircraft, which crashed on May 16, likely lost control because of turbulence caused by flying too close behind a Thai Airways Airbus A350- 900 jet, the UAE’s General Civil Aviation Authority (GCAA) said in a report.

Three Britons and a South African, who were employed by UK-based Flight Calibration Services, were killed after the plane crashed into a nature reserve near Mushrif Park, about 5km south of the airport.

The aircraft was carrying out checks as part of the southern runway refurbishment project at Dubai International airport.

According to the investigation, the DA62 was at a distance of 3.7 nautical miles (nm) from the Airbus jet, which was flying the approach to runway 30R.

“When the DA62 levelled off after turning onto final at an altitude of approximately 1,100 feet and at an airspeed of approximately 130 knots, it rolled slightly but was recovered after nine seconds,” the report said.

“Seven seconds later, the aircraft abruptly rolled to the left until it became inverted and it then entered a steep dive. The aircraft impacted the ground approximately 3.5 nm from the runway 30L threshold. The impact was not visible to the runway approach camera,” it added.

The GCAA stated that observations of previous approaches during the same calibration flight indicated that the DA62 “consistently” followed the Airbus jet at distances which were “below the specified minimum separation, and less than the distances discussed during the pre-departure meeting”.

“The radar monitor recording indicated that there was an air traffic control (ATC) inconsistency in advising the DA62 of the expected occurrence of hazards caused by wake turbulence from traffic on approach to the parallel runway 30R,” the report said.

“Based on these observations, the investigation believes that there is sufficient reason to issue a prompt safety recommendation to re-emphasise to pilots and air traffic controllers the importance of maintaining a minimum safe distance and issuing essential traffic information such as advising aircraft of the expected occurrence of hazards caused by wake turbulence,” the GCAA advised.

The Diamond DA62 plane was a seven-seat twin-engine aircraft. It was not fitted with a cockpit voice recorder or flight data recorder since it is not a regulatory certification requirement for an aircraft of its size.

The GCAA said it is now in the process of publishing a safety decision containing mandatory requirements for ensuring that ATC procedures are developed, implemented and maintained for issuing essential traffic information, including the advice to aircraft of the expected occurrence of hazards caused by turbulent wake.

A safety decision is also being prepared to ensure standardised procedures are in place for the management of unusual or abnormal aircraft operations, including calibration flights.
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