Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Any DA62 related topics

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Antoine
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by Antoine » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:20 pm

Hello again Ryan.
I appreciate your openness. To be equally open there's something that makes me feel uneasy in your story. Can't really tell what but I sense danger...
Obviously , cannot comment on financials, but from a flying strategy I would recommend you start small and grow. The challenge will be to find a plane that's "small" i.e. simple and easy to fly and where you can comfortably fit. Maybe Cirrus?
Ultimately I believe a TBM will be your best bet. But I think you should not skip the small plane step.
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by TimS » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:24 pm

iceathlete wrote: I was broke 4 years ago, because OLY athletes and hopefuls do not get paid and live on very little money.
I've done well in real estate in the last few years and have great prospects looking forward, hence the airplane shopping. My thinking is this. Do I buy a cheap IFR platform airplane in the next 12 months for $50,000-$250,000, so I can get my time in and start flying again, or do I just wait another 2 years and buy a TP or twin for $600,000-1.5m?
Thank you for taking the time to read this and I look forward to your responses.
Why wait? Get something more modest so your savings can still grow and then upgrade in three plus years.
Depending on budget; go for a C182 (less efficient, but cheap to acquire and maintain) or an older DA-42 (more expensive to get, but cheaper to run and faster).

Tim
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Paul
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by Paul » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:16 am

I live in SLC and regularly take trips to the Midwest. In fact I'm headed to Duluth in two days (918nm). I started off flying a DA40. I loved that plane. Flew it coast to coast more than once and got my PPL and instrument rating in it. What you will quickly realize is that a DA40 in SLC is a VFR only plane. Every cloud in the Rockies has ice or is a thunderstorm or both. This may be a slight exaggeration but not by much. So for any IMC dispatch you need FIKI. The DA62 will cover this but as others have pointed out, it's not pressurized and can't fly high enough. The only way to cross the Rockies in IMC conditions is to fly over it and for that you need to be able to fly in the flight levels. So after my DA40, I had a Cirrus SR22T. That was FIKI and could fly up to FL250 but flying an unpressurized plane above FL180 is incredibly risky and not particularly good for your health and not something you can really do with passengers. So again you can head East but like Collin said, it's an early morning thing in the summer and it's VFR. A DA62 would be perfect for the VFR mission and a blast to fly.

If you want something that can make it to the Midwest and beat the airlines with reliable dispatch, you are going to need a turboprop. Another reason why you'll want one is that headwinds coming home can be pretty strong. Particularly in the winter. Flying at 180 knots with 80 knots on the nose means you are barely passing trucks on I-80 below you. A Meridian cruises at 260 knots so while an 80 knot headwind is brutal, at least you can make it home in five or six hours of flying. A Meridian or a Jetprop will never have the legs to make the trip nonstop headed West. I fly an M600 now and that plane can do it almost always in just about any weather. A TBM 850 or newer flies faster and so that would be an even better choice.

Don't wait though. It doesn't matter how good a stick you are, it takes experience to be able to fly in the flight levels and to fly high performance planes so waiting until you can afford a DA62 or a TBM is nuts. Fly what you can afford now and build the time. I flew my DA40 to the Midwest a bunch of times. It took awhile and I needed good weather and O2 to do it but it was still great fun and always an adventure.
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by ultraturtle » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:23 pm

Paul wrote:...The DA62 will cover this but as others have pointed out, it's not pressurized and can't fly high enough. The only way to cross the Rockies in IMC conditions is to fly over it and for that you need to be able to fly in the flight levels...
I disagree. The DA62 has plenty of climb performance to spare at its max altitude of FL200, although you'll typically go at FL180 or 17,000 to avoid wearing a mask. Highest Min Sector Altitude I'm aware of over the Rockies is 16,800'.

As for price/performance, the jump to a turboprop single gains roughly 50% speed, at a cost of roughly 4 times the fuel burned per mile, and similar multiples in aquisition, maintenance, and insurance costs. You also drop the luxury of carrying a spare motor, a mighty fine thing to have in IMC over rough terrain.
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by Lou » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:56 pm

I am just adding my vote to the go slow voices here. It is tempting to comb through performance numbers to find the right travelling solution. If your mission is to travel reliably in most weather, you will find yourself looking at very capable, pressurized turbo-props. But I don't know if any pilot with less than 1000 hours should attempt to fly one, not because they are not easy to fly, but because things happen fast in a fast airplane.

There's an old saying: "If you have time to spare, go by air." This is especially true in the Rockies. Fly in the mornings, learn mountain weather, read Sparky Imeson's book, and every time you plan a trip speak the phrase "If weather permits." If you accept these limitations, there are a lot of options and the DA-62 would be a good one.

You will also experience some of the most sublime scenery and natural beauty imaginable.
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by TimS » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:28 pm

Lou wrote:I am just adding my vote to the go slow voices here. It is tempting to comb through performance numbers to find the right travelling solution. If your mission is to travel reliably in most weather, you will find yourself looking at very capable, pressurized turbo-props. But I don't know if any pilot with less than 1000 hours should attempt to fly one, not because they are not easy to fly, but because things happen fast in a fast airplane.

There's an old saying: "If you have time to spare, go by air." This is especially true in the Rockies. Fly in the mornings, learn mountain weather, read Sparky Imeson's book, and every time you plan a trip speak the phrase "If weather permits." If you accept these limitations, there are a lot of options and the DA-62 would be a good one.

You will also experience some of the most sublime scenery and natural beauty imaginable.
Do not make it more complicated than it is. In reality, a SETP is easier than most twins (the DA62 might be an exception).

There are really only two issues with SETP.
1. Learning to slow the plane, and to stay ahead of the plane. You either get it or you do not, and it is more of an issue when things go to sh**. But this is the smaller of the two issues, and comes more into to play if the second issue is not addressed. Note: the more complex the plane, the bigger the problem speed can be. For example, an Aerostar or a C421 are about as capable as a Meridian or older TBM. However, the Aerostar and C421 are much more complicated, and generally fly at faster approach speeds, reducing response time while increasing complexity.
2. ADM is the biggest issue. Safety comes from knowing the intersection of understanding weather, understanding the plane capabilities, and your own. Generally when you venture beyond any one axis you learn, the problem is when you venture beyond more than one axis.

To learn ADM, you need to get experience, the trick is not to have the experience kill you in the process. While looking to get experience, one of the best vehicles is to get mentors. The most critical thing in this process is not to mistake the person who has 2000 hours of doing the same hamburger run a thousand times versus the pilot who only has five hundred hours flying all over the country.

Tim
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by Colin » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:04 pm

A friend is an engineer in one of those firms that does post-accident analysis. His boss pointed out that they have worked on NO accidents involved PC-12s, but a whole bunch of King Air accidents. He thinks that a single PT6 might actually be safer than a pair of them. If something goes wrong, you have to act quickly in a King Air.
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by Thomas » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:18 pm

Colin wrote:A friend is an engineer in one of those firms that does post-accident analysis. His boss pointed out that they have worked on NO accidents involved PC-12s, but a whole bunch of King Air accidents. He thinks that a single PT6 might actually be safer than a pair of them. If something goes wrong, you have to act quickly in a King Air.
Colin his hitting the point. I have the opportunity to fly the PC12 often (from the RH seat). I think it’s the DA40 in the single turbine class. Very easy, very stable, very forgiving.... Pair ONE reliable Engine with a clever designed airframe, then you have an excellent and economical aircraft.
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by Lance Murray » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:02 am

A King Air has great single engine performance but the owner flown market has its own particular challenges. The last thing you want to do is act quickly and do the wrong thing. Don’t do anything quickly in an airplane.

Think about this. An engine failure in a PC12 will always end in a landing with questionable outcome. An engine failure in a King Air 99 percent of the time is no big deal. I’ll take my chances in a King Air if I have the choice. Those PT6 engines are extremely reliable.
Colin wrote:A friend is an engineer in one of those firms that does post-accident analysis. His boss pointed out that they have worked on NO accidents involved PC-12s, but a whole bunch of King Air accidents. He thinks that a single PT6 might actually be safer than a pair of them. If something goes wrong, you have to act quickly in a King Air.
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I Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by elmanzah » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:13 am

I am enjoying the conversation on this topic. I can say as a low time ifr pilot (380hrs), the interesting weather I encounter flying over the mountains in central PA gives me a long pause to think how demanding and frightening it must be to cross the Rockies! Knowing what little I know and given my philosophy on risk margins, and considering Ryan’s cost constraints, I would get a da62 and NOT fly it over the Rockies. I wouldn’t buy an intermediate plane as a step to a da62. Instead, I would get the da62, train and when the time comes for this mission I fly (kbtf krwl kjef). My 2 cents.
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