I will fly a DA62 tomorrow!

Any DA62 related topics

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Antoine
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I will fly a DA62 tomorrow!

Post by Antoine »

I was at EBACE in Geneva 2 days ago (thank you Thomas!) and we stopped at the ... Diamond display. They had a gorgeous looking DA62 there and an equally attractive salesperson.
We smalltalked and I couldn't refrain from giving her hell about the DA40 NG. She took it quite personally - "We learn from feedback (sic), we have added a protective cover on the engine master switch". I sent my greetings to the id... ahem the ENGINEER who put the switch there in the first place.

And despite all this machine gun fire, she gracefully offered me a demo flight in the 62. Tomorrow 9 AM.
Come on guys. What should I try, notice, report back?
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Re: I will fly a DA62 tomorrow!

Post by Aart »

your views on the views outside
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Chris
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Re: I will fly a DA62 tomorrow!

Post by Chris »

Antoine wrote:Come on guys. What should I try, notice, report back?
You should try to fly it down to Avignon so you can pick me and my wife up... gotta know how well it handles when it's loaded with four adults, right?

I'll be interested in hearing your experience with it, how well it handles, how roomy it feels, whether it meets/beats the book performance numbers. I'm sure it will be fun to fly.
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HPNAviator
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Re: I will fly a DA62 tomorrow!

Post by HPNAviator »

Perhaps you can use your charm on the salesperson to see if you can find out what Diamond has in plan for the DA40 and if the DA50 will ever see the light of day.

Having been a passenger in the back seat (2nd row) of the DA62 during a demo flight from Plant City Florida during Sun 'n Fun, I can say that it was like sitting in the back of a Cadillac Escalade, more of a feeling of a large SUV than the usual club seating arrangement of a Bonanza / Baron or Saratoga / Seneca. Owners of these giant sport 'utes as they are known in the USA will feel very comfortable with the DA62.
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Re: I will fly a DA62 tomorrow!

Post by Antoine »

Ok, been there done that. In a nutshell:
The plane is beautiful inside and out and our flight was a blast.
How refreshing to see a Diamond that is NOT white!
Here some pics you won't see in press kits!

Ms DA62 shows its livery in the glorious morning sun.
Capture d’écran 2016-05-27 à 12.52.54.png
Sexy engine nacelle from the side
Capture d’écran 2016-05-27 à 12.52.27.png
Rudder, trim tab and fairings
Capture d’écran 2016-05-27 à 12.51.43.png
The instrument panel is superb, very high perceived quality from switches, knobs and general layout.
The G1000 had a bad day. It felt like a PC that runs out of memory - very laggy.
I was disappointed that there was no keypad. Christoph said this would come (but where ?!).
The 62 also had a ball attachement for a tablet on the A-pillar. It is barely visible on the pic
Capture d’écran 2016-05-27 à 13.09.43.png
I would have hoped for a nearby USB power outlet and noticed than an iPad placed there would hide the TKS control panel and several other important items.
Notice the rudder pedal adjustment switch on the far left.
The design of the interior is great but a lot of the beautiful finish was already aging - not well... Leather no longer sticking to its support, etc... I was told this was a pre-production demonstrator that had been flown all around the world, taking a lot of wear.

The third seat row. This is probably one optional item we won't see often in Europe due to the very expensive En-route Eurocontrol taxes that come with a MTOW above 1'999Kg.
Capture d’écran 2016-05-27 à 12.57.14.png
A view of the belly, notice the nice fairing of the hinges and the not-so-nice Cleveland wheels and brakes - more about weight later. The landing gear looked very very strong and nicely built to me. Beringer wheels belong here.
Capture d’écran 2016-05-27 à 12.50.43.png
We took off from Lausanne (LSGL) at 0900 local and flew 1:08 hour.
Local QNH was 1016 millibar and temps was ISA+ 5 or so. Little wind. Field altitude 2'000 ft.

Startup was amazingly quiet and vibration free, even more so than in a DA42 NG.

Taxi was interesting!
The plane is so wide that we were actually mowing the grass on one side of the taxiway. We had to stop at the run-up point to check that not foreign material had gotten into the pitot.
The wing was covered with debris from the grass!

With 3 male adults on board, we were around 2000 Kg TOW. Airfield elevation was 2000 ft.

Taxiing and take-off were done by Christoph (the DAI pilot) so I can't comment on forces etc... I noticed he was already pulling on the stick at 45-50 knots probably to relieve the nose gear.
Acceleration was less impressive than in the DA42 NG. We took-off after about a 500 meter run. Initial climb at around 86 KIAS/1000 fpm was similar to that of my DA40 XL, a solid 1'000 fpm.
I took over and hand flew the airplane. Did some moderately steep turns. One thing I noticed is that the 62 wants a lot of back pressure in even a moderately steep turn (30 degrees), otherwise it loses several hundred feet per minute. The weight and inertia were very perceptible, but the plane was still solid and sharp and pleasant to hand fly.
I have not flown my Extra 400 for months, so I'd be hard pressed to make final statements - I think the Extra was more nimble.

We climbed at between 85 and 95% power which is max continuous. The plane burns 19 GPH at 95% and at 145 KTAS it delivered a bit over 1'000 fpm until about 10'000 ft.
We did a single engine test and now I understand why some people dont want to do their MEP rating in a Diamond. Too easy! It took a lot of rudder pressure until I had trimmed it out, but otherwise really trivial.
The plane continued its solid climb on autopilot and one engine.
After this we pulled the nose up for 95 KIAS and were climbing at an uncomfortably steep angle. Engines were purring and all was well.
We soon reached FL125 (yes you can do that in Europe, our transition levels are set around FL060 typically).

We did a quick speed test. at 95% power and 19 GPH the plane did a steady 190 KTAS.
Considering the relatively low altitude it is a very nice number but if I were operating such a plane I am not sure I would really want canulas up my nostrils just for the pleasure of a few extra knots.
So I would only fly at O2 altitudes if there were a nice tailwind to catch there. Therefore, FL125 is probably a typical maximum "real world" altitude in my view.

Maybe Dave can chime-in?
How does this compare with a DA42-VI?

We went over the Alps to Zermatt / Matterhorn and briefly climbed up to FL 135.
The Matterhorn had a puff of cloud hiding its top, like a mini volcano.
There was a bit of wind (30 knots) so I had to work around summits and ridges to avoid excessive turbulence.
We nevertheless got our share of bumpy air, and it showed that the 62, despite its weight does not like turbulence too much. I had to fight for our attitude and we were quite shaken.

The return to Lausanne was a matter of managing energy. Christoph asked me to hand over the plane in downwind, between 100 and 120 KIAS. Flaps went to T/O before downwind and the gear was down at end of downwind. We had 95 KTAS in short final which I found very high. The landing did not feel very pleasant (fast and heavy) but braking was excellent and we had speed under control in no time at all.

Now here comes the not so pleasant news.
The 62 has an empty mass of 1590 Kg. When you add TKS, AC, Radar, TCAS, O2, DME it gets to 1695.
The European version with 1999 Kg MTOW is left with 300 Kg or so of useful load - a big problem.
Add 30 liters of TKS fluid and a bit of fuel, and this becomes a 2 person plane... unless of course you ignore the administrative limit and run the risk of being caught over gross during a ramp check.

Cost: north of 1'000'000 Euro. (the above configuration is closer to 1'1 M)

Summary: a beautiful plane, very nice to fly and adequately powered. Superb single engine behavior.
Probably more suitable for the US with the "legal" additional useful load and its comfy interior.
Too wide, too heavy and too low utility for such an investment in my eyes. But I AM wrong. They are selling like hot cakes :D
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Re: I will fly a DA62 tomorrow!

Post by robert63 »

I notice lagging of the G1000 too on version 0670.12. But only when entering flight plans.
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Re: I will fly a DA62 tomorrow!

Post by Antoine »

Capture d’écran 2016-05-27 à 20.33.05.png
This was the highlight of this flight. "Our Matterhorn" in its full glory. FL 135
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Re: I will fly a DA62 tomorrow!

Post by Colin »

I understand why some people dont want to do their MEP rating in a Diamond.
I got my multi-engine rating in a DA42. I am pretty sure I would be a hazard in a Baron and would do a lot of training before I took my family up in one.

(Growing up I only knew the Matterhorn as the largest ice cream sundae Baskin Robbins* served (15 scoops piled up with whipped cream and toppings to match that photo, sort of. Nice to see the real thing.)


* ice cream shop chain in the United States.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
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Antoine
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Re: I will fly a DA62 tomorrow!

Post by Antoine »

Antoine
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Re: I will fly a DA62 tomorrow!

Post by Antoine »

Some comparisons:

I checked the data from my flight in the DA62 versus the "real world POH numbers" supplied by my Extra 400 contact in Canada.

DA62: At 12'500 feet on a hotter than ISA day we probably had a DA of 13'500. I forgot to check...
The DA62 had a max speed of 190 KTAS on 19 GPH (at its max continuous power, 95% of 360 HP).

The "POH" values for the Extra 400 at 75% of 350 HP are
188 KTAS at 12'000 feet
191 at 14000 feet
burning 23 GPH (ROP).

I whipped together a spreadsheet.
In this situation, the Austros have a specific fuel burn of .38 lb/HP/hr versus 0.53 for the turbocharged TSIOL-550 C. The Austros are a whopping 28% more efficient! of course the Conti is running ROP; but it could not deliver enough HP LOP so the comparison is still valid at this power level.

Conversely, the DA62 airframe needs 30% more power to match the speed of the Extra 400.
I did not measure, but I think the Extra 400's cabin is a little bit wider and definitely higher than that of the 62.

Assuming DAI did an aerodynamic job on par to what Extra did in the 1990, this gives us a "price point" for the luxury of flying on two engines. At least 30% extra power or 14% more drag.

What is gained from diesel technology is invested in the twin architecture.

Now imagine a DA61 with a single 275 HP diesel engine that can operate at 95% max continuous.
It would do 190 KTAS at 12000 feet on 14.6 GPH of diesel...

Add a "P" to the DA61 and send it up high for 210+ knots on the same 15 GPH...

Just kiddin'

PS I did not call it a DA52 because IIRC this was a fixed gear aircraft?
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