Saw it, sat in it, and have my opinion...

Any DA62 related topics

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Star57
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Re: Saw it, sat in it, and have my opinion...

Post by Star57 »

rwtucker wrote:
Antoine wrote:I am willing to allocate a lot of goodwill towards Diamond's totally idiot-proof stall characteristics, but the above data makes me wonder if they aren't getting a bit complacent in terms of engineering ambition. 6 knots of Vs gain in landing configuration is ... not much. And this wingspan is ... an awful lot!
Even though I agree, most of time time completely, there occasions where I have extra appreciation for Diamond's handling characteristics. Today was such a day. Four and one half hours solitary non-stop from northern Idaho to Phoenix at 15,500 MSL . . . fatigued more than I knew by the time I crossed the Grand Canyon (I had an O2 leak and didn't know it) . . . then into Phoenix's complex airspace at a point where three air spaces, a traffic-intensive alert area, and an Air Force base restricted area that was visibly hot at the time of my arrival. I finally make it to my airport, high and hot (don't ask) facing a turn to base where anything short of a 70-72 degree bank chasing the runway back (no skid) would have broken military airspace. I'm too fast for flaps but not that far above theoretical stall. Unsurprisingly, my Diamond flew much better than I did; brought be back to center line ready for an aggressive slip. (At least my fatigue disappeared.) I'm not sure I would have tried that (or survived, had I tried) in most other aircraft I have flown. It would be correct to say that the Diamond's stability may lead to poor habits. On the other hand, there are days when we part-time, occasional, much less than perfect pilots appreciate what Diamond has done. In my mind, they don't get enough credit for it.
I can relate to what you describe, I have arrived a few times into the Phoenix Valley, at night, after flying for nine hours from Calgary Canada, 1060 nm, that's a lot of flying at 130knots, my last trip, had the routing of CYBW KCTB KFOM KGEU, by the time I arrived in the Phoenix Valley it was night, traffic all around me, including F15's nearby taking off Luke AB, started positioning my self towards Luke, when Phoenix approach reminded me of how much paper work I would have to do, I'm glad the guy had a sense of humour, Glendale is like 5 miles away, Phoenix is the busiest airspace I ever flew in, it can be overwhelming.
I love my plane, and how forgiving it is, but my body hates it!
The ideal DA40 would have the lycoming TIO 360, 210 HP from the Mooney M20J, 165 KTAS, TKS, 65 Gallons min., optional AC, and the stall speed as it is, better seats, like on the Porsche 997, that's not asking for a lot is it?
It's interesting that DAI is not showing the XLT with the Lycoming 360 on their web site, a mistake in my opinion, the NG needs to deal with the extra weight of the engine, or the safe plane status will disappear.
I love Antoine's Extra400, have looked at that plane for a long time, unfortunately the value of my money has dropped by 42%, that means no new fancy plane for a while.
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rwtucker
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Re: Saw it, sat in it, and have my opinion...

Post by rwtucker »

Star57 wrote:
rwtucker wrote:
Antoine wrote:I am willing to allocate a lot of goodwill towards Diamond's totally idiot-proof stall characteristics, but the above data makes me wonder if they aren't getting a bit complacent in terms of engineering ambition. 6 knots of Vs gain in landing configuration is ... not much. And this wingspan is ... an awful lot!
Even though I agree, most of time time completely, there occasions where I have extra appreciation for Diamond's handling characteristics. Today was such a day. Four and one half hours solitary non-stop from northern Idaho to Phoenix at 15,500 MSL . . . fatigued more than I knew by the time I crossed the Grand Canyon (I had an O2 leak and didn't know it) . . . then into Phoenix's complex airspace at a point where three air spaces, a traffic-intensive alert area, and an Air Force base restricted area that was visibly hot at the time of my arrival. I finally make it to my airport, high and hot (don't ask) facing a turn to base where anything short of a 70-72 degree bank chasing the runway back (no skid) would have broken military airspace. I'm too fast for flaps but not that far above theoretical stall. Unsurprisingly, my Diamond flew much better than I did; brought be back to center line ready for an aggressive slip. (At least my fatigue disappeared.) I'm not sure I would have tried that (or survived, had I tried) in most other aircraft I have flown. It would be correct to say that the Diamond's stability may lead to poor habits. On the other hand, there are days when we part-time, occasional, much less than perfect pilots appreciate what Diamond has done. In my mind, they don't get enough credit for it.
I can relate to what you describe, I have arrived a few times into the Phoenix Valley, at night, after flying for nine hours from Calgary Canada, 1060 nm, that's a lot of flying at 130knots, my last trip, had the routing of CYBW KCTB KFOM KGEU, by the time I arrived in the Phoenix Valley it was night, traffic all around me, including F15's nearby taking off Luke AB, started positioning my self towards Luke, when Phoenix approach reminded me of how much paper work I would have to do, I'm glad the guy had a sense of humour, Glendale is like 5 miles away, Phoenix is the busiest airspace I ever flew in, it can be overwhelming.
I love my plane, and how forgiving it is, but my body hates it!
The ideal DA40 would have the lycoming TIO 360, 210 HP from the Mooney M20J, 165 KTAS, TKS, 65 Gallons min., optional AC, and the stall speed as it is, better seats, like on the Porsche 997, that's not asking for a lot is it?
It's interesting that DAI is not showing the XLT with the Lycoming 360 on their web site, a mistake in my opinion, the NG needs to deal with the extra weight of the engine, or the safe plane status will disappear.
I love Antoine's Extra400, have looked at that plane for a long time, unfortunately the value of my money has dropped by 42%, that means no new fancy plane for a while.
Great discussion. More random thoughts.

On Phoenix. My son, who lives there and is also a pilot, gave me a much better solution for KGEU. I should have asked him in the first place. Set a course direct to KDVT once you transition the Grand Canyon central corridor at 12,500 MSL. Begin your descent 20 minutes out to arrive at KDVT at 4,500 MSL. Directly overhead KDVT, turn direct to KGEU to arrive at 2,100 MSL. It takes a few more minutes but you will avoid with a wide margin PHX, Luke, the alert area, and the dozens of DVT ESL student pilots. It is especially scenic at night with the University of Phoenix stadium on your left. I think the seat thing is highly individual. My DA40 seats fit me perfectly. I jumped out after 5.5 hours non-stop with no aches or pains. I can't fly three hours in my Dakota's Cadillac type seats (that I can slide way back) without feeling stiff and sore.

I agree with the DA40 HP problem. It is easy to dismiss the issue by joking that you can never have too much HP but the problem is more subtle. The DA40 is under-powered in relation to the capability of its airframe; 220-250 HP would allow you to fly routinely toward the upper end of the airframe envelope.

The NG looks like a irremediable mistake. It is already on its way to be a killer with statistics similar to some of Diamond's competition. In my opinion. Diamond loses its most distinctive value proposition when it ceases to be the safest, most stable aircraft of its type.

The DA42 is a great aircraft, made so by a high feature/price ratio. The DA62 is a slightly refined DA42 with a much lower feature/price ratio. It will be interesting to see how it does in the next 12 months.
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Aart
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Re: Saw it, sat in it, and have my opinion...

Post by Aart »

Antoine,
I don't want to open the boring debate about singles vs twins, but let's be fair to Diamond twins (and all other twins) in that you cannot expect their speed performance to be as good as a single with the same HP. Apart from a push-pull configuration, a twin cross section shows 3 'humps' instead of one.. ;)
Aart
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