Flight Global article on DA62
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- Gnomad
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Re: Flight Global article on DA62
Well...I guess we'll find out soon enough.
Hope you have a good time at Sun 'n Fun again this year Dave!
Maybe the AVweb writer pumped Sun 'n Fun knowing the DA62 will be at Friedrichshafen and is expecting Diamond to show it off at Sun 'n Fun. We all know Diamond hasn't really had a presence at Sun 'n Fun or Oshkosh the last few years. However...
The Candadian test pilot that was doing demo flights in my plane has been flight testing a DA62 in Canada. There is one in North America.
Hope you have a good time at Sun 'n Fun again this year Dave!
Maybe the AVweb writer pumped Sun 'n Fun knowing the DA62 will be at Friedrichshafen and is expecting Diamond to show it off at Sun 'n Fun. We all know Diamond hasn't really had a presence at Sun 'n Fun or Oshkosh the last few years. However...
The Candadian test pilot that was doing demo flights in my plane has been flight testing a DA62 in Canada. There is one in North America.
Eric
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- rwtucker
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Re: Flight Global article on DA62
As someone who appreciates the many dimensions of quality we see in Diamond's products, I'm not getting how the DA62 is particularly impressive either in relation to the DA42s or as compared with products that compete on one or more of the attributes (200 kts, 5-seats, 2-engines). What about the DA62 could be called innovative, game changing, impressive, forward looking, etc.?
If you absolutely have to have five seats and don't want to fly on one engine, the DA62 is your next aircraft; otherwise, this looks like an overdue and probably overpriced incremental gain that slightly extends Diamond's solid platform in the light Twins where the new DA42-VI looks like the guerrilla in the market.
On price. As Diamond's twins creep north of $1M, they will be close to the price of used Eclipse 500s. I do business with a company that has three of these. For mid-sized businesses whose executives must to travel a great deal, they are a magnificent game changing aircraft. They same time and money and add convenience. When the Eclipse says seating for five or six, they have something different in mind than the DA62's small cabin.
If you absolutely have to have five seats and don't want to fly on one engine, the DA62 is your next aircraft; otherwise, this looks like an overdue and probably overpriced incremental gain that slightly extends Diamond's solid platform in the light Twins where the new DA42-VI looks like the guerrilla in the market.
On price. As Diamond's twins creep north of $1M, they will be close to the price of used Eclipse 500s. I do business with a company that has three of these. For mid-sized businesses whose executives must to travel a great deal, they are a magnificent game changing aircraft. They same time and money and add convenience. When the Eclipse says seating for five or six, they have something different in mind than the DA62's small cabin.
- HPNAviator
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Re: Flight Global article on DA62
To me the competition is not the Eclipse but the Beech Baron and the Piper Seneca, both that offer club seating and I expect both will be on display at Sun 'n Fun this year. Will be interesting to do a side-by-side comparison if in fact the DA-62 is on display. The DA-62 is the heaviest of the three and has the least amount of horse power but claimed speed and range is similar. What intrigues me is that Diamond did not take advantage of the extra width of the plane to enhance the avionics panel past the MD-302 back-up EFIS. It is interesting that for a plane of this capability and price that neither the Garmin 2000 or at least the existing G1000 autopilot controller and keypad found in the SR-22 where added. Perhaps Diamond was trying to ease manufacturing or pilot transition by keeping the panels between the DA42-VI and the DA-62 almost identical.
Last year Piper sold 10 Seneca's and Beechcraft sold 40 Baron's, I wonder how many of those customers would have bought a DA-62 if it was available. For reference Diamond sold 50 DA-42's in 2014.
Last year Piper sold 10 Seneca's and Beechcraft sold 40 Baron's, I wonder how many of those customers would have bought a DA-62 if it was available. For reference Diamond sold 50 DA-42's in 2014.
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Re: Flight Global article on DA62
I believe that Diamond's focus is really on non-AVGAS markets.
The operating cost of a DA62 will be much lower than that of a small jet, yet it would be suitable for taxi jobs in areas where AVGAS is not available and a twin is a must. Also, the 62 will get into airfields where a jet cannot land.
If my guess proves correct, the 62 will dramatically change the size of the piston twin market.
The DA42 was not able to do that because its cabin is not adequate for commercial transportation.
I think I know why they have not done a pressurized cabin (cost/certification) but I am betting they will reconsider at a later stage.
The operating cost of a DA62 will be much lower than that of a small jet, yet it would be suitable for taxi jobs in areas where AVGAS is not available and a twin is a must. Also, the 62 will get into airfields where a jet cannot land.
If my guess proves correct, the 62 will dramatically change the size of the piston twin market.
The DA42 was not able to do that because its cabin is not adequate for commercial transportation.
I think I know why they have not done a pressurized cabin (cost/certification) but I am betting they will reconsider at a later stage.
- rwtucker
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Re: Flight Global article on DA62
Agreed. I was not suggesting that the DA62 shares a market with an aircraft with a higher operating cost that flies a roomy cabin 370 kts at 41,000 feet. However, the DA62 seems like a questionable incremental change and, aside from an extra seat, perhaps not even a net improvement over the VI's impressive speed and payload.Antoine wrote:I believe that Diamond's focus is really on non-AVGAS markets.
The operating cost of a DA62 will be much lower than that of a small jet, yet it would be suitable for taxi jobs in areas where AVGAS is not available and a twin is a must. Also, the 62 will get into airfields where a jet cannot land.
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Re: Flight Global article on DA62
I don't think the competition is limited to twins. If this plane existed two years ago, I would have considered it along with the Cirrus that I eventually ended up with. I needed five seats and Diamond had no product. A 62 would solve my seat issue, plus burn jet fuel, plus give me more range. I'd also trade the chute for a second engine.
- HPNAviator
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Re: Flight Global article on DA62
AVWEB has now corrected its article on the DA62 and stated that it will NOT be at Sun 'n Fun this week. It would have been nice to see in person. Perhaps it will be at Airventure.
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Di ... 874-1.html
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Di ... 874-1.html
- Gnomad
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Re: Flight Global article on DA62
Noticed the article said...
p.s. EASA issued the type certificate Thursday...it's a real plane. Put me down for 1 vote for a DA62 forum.
First time I've noticed a reference to "AE330" engines. Anyone know if this is just a software thing, bumping the AE300 HP from 168 to 180, or is there more to it?driven by two Austro AE330 turbocharged 180-hp diesel engines
p.s. EASA issued the type certificate Thursday...it's a real plane. Put me down for 1 vote for a DA62 forum.
Eric
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- CFIDave
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Re: Flight Global article on DA62
Kai: I also believe we need a DA62 forum, or this thread will grow to an unmanageable size.
From what I can tell, the new Austro AE330 engine of the DA62 is hardware-identical to the E4-C engine of the DA42-VI -- but with more software-controlled turbo boost pressure. To get it certified at 180 hp instead of 168 hp required a different product identifier. The different model numbers also reflect different TBOs:
168 hp Austro AE300: Now 1800 hours TBO (just raised from 1500 hours this week, with a goal of 2000 hours TBO) for DA40NG, DA42NG/VI
180 hp Austro AE330: 1000 hours initial TBO (Austro must start at a low 1000 hours TBO before proving that the additional turbo boost pressure doesn't negatively affect engine durability/longevity) for DA62
To really get off-topic, Austro also introduced an AE200 3-cylinder 120 hp diesel being made in China, for use with HK36 motorgliders and possibly DV20 Katana models.
From what I can tell, the new Austro AE330 engine of the DA62 is hardware-identical to the E4-C engine of the DA42-VI -- but with more software-controlled turbo boost pressure. To get it certified at 180 hp instead of 168 hp required a different product identifier. The different model numbers also reflect different TBOs:
168 hp Austro AE300: Now 1800 hours TBO (just raised from 1500 hours this week, with a goal of 2000 hours TBO) for DA40NG, DA42NG/VI
180 hp Austro AE330: 1000 hours initial TBO (Austro must start at a low 1000 hours TBO before proving that the additional turbo boost pressure doesn't negatively affect engine durability/longevity) for DA62
To really get off-topic, Austro also introduced an AE200 3-cylinder 120 hp diesel being made in China, for use with HK36 motorgliders and possibly DV20 Katana models.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
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Re: Flight Global article on DA62
Two additional details from the fact sheet:
http://www.diamond-air.at/content/produ ... 201503.pdf
1. The aux tanks contain 18 gal compared to the 13 gal aux tanks on the DA42. I guess there's a bit more room in the DA62 engine nacelles.
2. Type number seems to indicate the MT props have an extra 4 cm of diameter compared to the DA42-VI.
http://www.diamond-air.at/content/produ ... 201503.pdf
1. The aux tanks contain 18 gal compared to the 13 gal aux tanks on the DA42. I guess there's a bit more room in the DA62 engine nacelles.
2. Type number seems to indicate the MT props have an extra 4 cm of diameter compared to the DA42-VI.