G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

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CFIDave
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Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

Post by CFIDave »

Installation of GIA63Ws (soon to become available on the used market because of NXi upgrades by other owners) does not require help from Diamond, it doesn't require any new software development on the part of Garmin, and it doesn't require any additional certification of hardware or software for DA40s or DA42s. GIA63 --> GIA63W installations are legal and have been performed on DA40s and DA42s for many years. Such an upgrade allows owners to take advantage of newer legacy Garmin G1000 software with WAAS that's already available for their aircraft.

This is similar to what has already happened with Garmin GNS430/GNS530 --> GNS430W/GNS530W upgrades to obtain WAAS. As many aircraft owners have now upgraded their panels to the newest GTN 650/750 units, it's created a secondary market for their used GNS430Ws/GNS530Ws by owners that still have the original non-WAAS GNS430/530 units and want WAAS.

Described is a solution to the OP's specific problem: no more GIA63Ws available for a WAAS upgrade. It doesn't address the larger issue (discussed at length in the other thread) that there's no more ongoing software development for legacy G1000s, nor does it provide a migration path to NXi for DA42 TDI aircraft.
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Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

Post by Boatguy »

The best way to get back to one thread is to stop posting in this one...
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Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

Post by ememic99 »

Boatguy wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:04 am The best way to get back to one thread is to stop posting in this one...
I can agree but then sometimes it's not easy to follow the order of questions and replies. Also, people tend to become tired of too long threads usually avoiding to read them from the beginning which leads to missing important information and repeating same questions over and over again (although the same can happen if information is spread over several threads).
CFIDave wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:58 pm Installation of GIA63Ws (soon to become available on the used market because of NXi upgrades by other owners) does not require help from Diamond, it doesn't require any new software development on the part of Garmin, and it doesn't require any additional certification of hardware or software for DA40s or DA42s. GIA63 --> GIA63W installations are legal and have been performed on DA40s and DA42s for many years. Such an upgrade allows owners to take advantage of newer legacy Garmin G1000 software with WAAS that's already available for their aircraft.

This is similar to what has already happened with Garmin GNS430/GNS530 --> GNS430W/GNS530W upgrades to obtain WAAS. As many aircraft owners have now upgraded their panels to the newest GTN 650/750 units, it's created a secondary market for their used GNS430Ws/GNS530Ws by owners that still have the original non-WAAS GNS430/530 units and want WAAS.

Described is a solution to the OP's specific problem: no more GIA63Ws available for a WAAS upgrade. It doesn't address the larger issue (discussed at length in the other thread) that there's no more ongoing software development for legacy G1000s, nor does it provide a migration path to NXi for DA42 TDI aircraft.
Thanks for this clarification. However, AFAIK replacing GIA63 with GIA63W won't provide WAAS capability by itself to KAP140 equipped DA42. IIRC there's some additional work involved and these few upgrades of this kind were done only in DAI facilities. In addition, I have some doubts about paperwork that follows such upgrade. As I previously wrote, in EASA-land replacement unit (either new or refurbished) has to come with appropriate documentation which in this case can only come from manufacturer. When I owned TB20, replacing GNS530 with GNS530W was legally major airframe upgrade under EASA and it included antena and cabling replacement and all equipment had to be accompanied with appropriate Form 1 documentation.
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Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

Post by TimS »

ememic99 wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:59 am Fifth, we’re still waiting to see any upgrade proposal from DAI decoupled from engine exchange to AE300.
What is the business incentive for DAI to do so?
Oh, recalling the brochure DAI has good lawyers. The WAAS and other upgrades do not require the engine change.
When you do the engine change, WAAS, GFC700 and other items were available as options since there were required HW and SW changes to the G1000 which are required by engine change. So it meets Europe requirements about chained options.

(Yes, I am speaking semantics, which in this case matter).

Tim
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Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

Post by ememic99 »

TimS wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:29 pm
ememic99 wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:59 am Fifth, we’re still waiting to see any upgrade proposal from DAI decoupled from engine exchange to AE300.
What is the business incentive for DAI to do so?
Some 300 airframes which can be upgraded and supporting loyal customers for improving company image, just to name the two.
TimS wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:29 pm Oh, recalling the brochure DAI has good lawyers. The WAAS and other upgrades do not require the engine change.
When you do the engine change, WAAS, GFC700 and other items were available as options since there were required HW and SW changes to the G1000 which are required by engine change. So it meets Europe requirements about chained options.

(Yes, I am speaking semantics, which in this case matter).

Tim
Actually, you're not quite right here. Upgrading legacy G1000 avionics to WAAS with retaining KAP140 or replacing it with GFC700 was possible at one point in the time but it seems that Diamond doesn't offer these options any more. So nobody can tell WAAS and GFC700 are the options which become available after you exchange the engines.
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Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

Post by TimS »

ememic99 wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:58 pm Actually, you're not quite right here. Upgrading legacy G1000 avionics to WAAS with retaining KAP140 or replacing it with GFC700 was possible at one point in the time but it seems that Diamond doesn't offer these options any more. So nobody can tell WAAS and GFC700 are the options which become available after you exchange the engines.
I should still have (somewhere) the ad from Diamond on the engine upgrade (I was considering buying a DA-42 with timed out engines). At that time, the GFC-700 and WAAS were specifically listed as options on the engine upgrade. When I talked to Diamond at the time, they were very specific that the engine change required a HW/SW changes in the G1000; which is why the GFC-700 and WAAS were "options" at that time. This was in late 2017 early 2018.

Then last summer, I started this thread: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6439&p=69479&p69479
When I called Diamond, stating I was looking at an old DA-42 and looking at the engine upgrade, they gave me the run around. I think it is also why Diamond converted a few planes they bought from TDI 1.7L to the TDI 2.0 engines; no avionics changes....

Tim
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Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

Post by ememic99 »

TimS wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:23 pm
ememic99 wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:58 pm Actually, you're not quite right here. Upgrading legacy G1000 avionics to WAAS with retaining KAP140 or replacing it with GFC700 was possible at one point in the time but it seems that Diamond doesn't offer these options any more. So nobody can tell WAAS and GFC700 are the options which become available after you exchange the engines.
I should still have (somewhere) the ad from Diamond on the engine upgrade (I was considering buying a DA-42 with timed out engines). At that time, the GFC-700 and WAAS were specifically listed as options on the engine upgrade. When I talked to Diamond at the time, they were very specific that the engine change required a HW/SW changes in the G1000; which is why the GFC-700 and WAAS were "options" at that time. This was in late 2017 early 2018.
Yes but I'm talking about pre-2017 time. And upgrading to WAAS and GFC700 with keeping TDI engines was definitively available.
TimS wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:23 pm Then last summer, I started this thread: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6439&p=69479&p69479
When I called Diamond, stating I was looking at an old DA-42 and looking at the engine upgrade, they gave me the run around. I think it is also why Diamond converted a few planes they bought from TDI 1.7L to the TDI 2.0 engines; no avionics changes....

Tim
In this thread you can find out that Colin upgraded his DA42 TDI to WAAS.
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Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

Post by CFIDave »

IIRC in 2008 a few of the last new Thielert DA42 TDIs produced in Austria came with WAAS and GFC 700. Which is why the legacy G1000 software that supports this configuration already exists. (This may be how Colin got his DA42 TDI upgraded.)
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Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

Post by TimS »

CFIDave wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:58 pm IIRC in 2008 a few of the last new Thielert DA42 TDIs produced in Austria came with WAAS and GFC 700. Which is why the legacy G1000 software that supports this configuration already exists. (This may be how Colin got his DA42 TDI upgraded.)
Yup, and why I pointed out in the thread I started that the HW is no longer available.

Tim
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Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

Post by Keith M »

Diamond's attitude towards G1000 software upgrades reminds me of my late mum who, after buying a new lampshade for a table lamp, insisted that the whole room needed to be redecorated to match it! One of the reasons I've sold my DA40TDI.
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