DA40NG
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- Keith M
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Re: DA40NG
Assuming no wind, the GPS GND speed should be similar to the stalling speed, which is 60kts in the landing configuration. From memory, I think the sinkrate is about 700fpm, so I wouldn't recommend trying it as a CAPS substitute! It isn't far off the CAPS rate of descent of an SR22, but that has a collapsible honeycomb structure under the seats, and the undercarriage is designed to progressively collapse to reduce the rate of deceleration on impact. Any horizontal velocity will be due to the wind, if the CAPS was pulled early enough.
- ultraturtle
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Re: DA40NG
DA40 NG GPS ground speed against a 60 kt headwind would be ~ 0 kts.Thomas wrote:CFI Dave, what is the sinkrate in "parachute mode" and what is the apprx GPS GND speed.
A Cirrus descending in the same scenario would have a 60 kt ground speed (plus or minus 12 knots of velocity added or subtracted by the chute - a number over which the passenger has no control) and almost certainly be descending at a greater rate.
The Lycoming DA40 descends between 600 and 1200 fpm in this mode, compared to the Cirrus at 900 to 1680 fpm under the chute.
- CFIDave
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Re: DA40NG
Sinkrate for a DA40-180 in "parachute mode" is 700 fpm; for the DA40 NG it's about 100 fpm more. For my DA62, it's about 1300 fpm. (I've heard that a Cirrus SR22 under parachute descends at least 1300 fpm.)
I've never bothered looking at the GPS groundspeed in "parachute mode" since it's dependent on the winds aloft (I'm at least 3000 feet AGL when practicing stalls). But otherwise I would expect groundspeed would be less than the aircraft's wings-level stall speed. (Obviously a Cirrus under parachute would drift at the horizontal wind velocity.)
I've never bothered looking at the GPS groundspeed in "parachute mode" since it's dependent on the winds aloft (I'm at least 3000 feet AGL when practicing stalls). But otherwise I would expect groundspeed would be less than the aircraft's wings-level stall speed. (Obviously a Cirrus under parachute would drift at the horizontal wind velocity.)
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
- Keith M
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Re: DA40NG
The rate of descent of an SR22 under CAPS is higher than I thought, but the relative lack of horizontal velocity, compared with a stalled descent, is still significant. From Cirrus' Guide to the CIRRUS AIRFRAME PARACHUTE SYSTEM :
"The airplane will descend under the canopy at less than 1700 fpm and ground impact is expected to be equivalent to dropping from a height of 13 feet (about 4 meters). The airframe, seats and landing gear are all designed to absorb the impact energy."
"The airplane will descend under the canopy at less than 1700 fpm and ground impact is expected to be equivalent to dropping from a height of 13 feet (about 4 meters). The airframe, seats and landing gear are all designed to absorb the impact energy."
- Steve
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Re: DA40NG
On the other hand, the DA40 cockpit structure and restraint system (standard, without Amsafe airbags) was tested to be survivable in a forward impact of somewhere north of 20 Gs.Keith M wrote:The rate of descent of an SR22 under CAPS is higher than I thought, but the relative lack of horizontal velocity, compared with a stalled descent, is still significant. From Cirrus' Guide to the CIRRUS AIRFRAME PARACHUTE SYSTEM :
"The airplane will descend under the canopy at less than 1700 fpm and ground impact is expected to be equivalent to dropping from a height of 13 feet (about 4 meters). The airframe, seats and landing gear are all designed to absorb the impact energy."
- Keith M
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Re: DA40NG
The cockpit and seatbelts may be able to survive 20G deceleration, but I doubt many humans could. Amsafe airbags (not an option in my DA40 TDI) and a 4-point seatbelt (both of which Cirrus have) would lessen the risk of smashing your face against the instrument panel, but it would need something like the HANS device that racing drivers wear to give you the best chance of avoiding getting a broken neck.
- Steve
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Re: DA40NG
The test I'm talking about was done with instrumented anthropometric dummies. The recorded acceleration forces were survivable. Not saying you wouldn't have (perhaps severe) injuries. I have a CD somewhere with a video of the test - it is quite impressive.Keith M wrote:The cockpit and seatbelts may be able to survive 20G deceleration, but I doubt many humans could. Amsafe airbags (not an option in my DA40 TDI) and a 4-point seatbelt (both of which Cirrus have) would lessen the risk of smashing your face against the instrument panel, but it would need something like the HANS device that racing drivers wear to give you the best chance of avoiding getting a broken neck.
- gordsh
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Re: DA40NG
I must say too that it’s nice to hear reviews from people who actually have flown the NG DA40 and like it. I love the Diamond brand and my Lycoming DA40 is a dream to fly, but honestly some of the NG discussion in this thread makes it sound like even test flying the NG is a waste of time. I have actually never even seen an NG DA40 person, but I am really looking forward to flying one soon.CFIDave wrote:Over the past 6 months I've had the experience of flight instructing and providing transition training in the DA40 NG (after having owned and instructed in the DA40-180 for years), and the NG doesn't have any bad habits -- it flies like a DA40!
I like to perform the same "parachute mode" demo in a DA40 NG (as I do in all Diamonds, including twins): I put the plane into a power-off stall (with the throttle back to idle) and hold the stick all the way back. With the stall horn blaring and the plane buffeting, the DA40 will descend in a wings-level attitude under complete control without any falling leaf, wing drop, or propensity to enter a spin. All you have to do to break the stall is pitch down -- adding power is not required.
I wish every person who criticizes the NG had the opportunity to fly one. I now prefer it to the Lycoming DA40.
For some reason even though its made here in Canada we don't have very many compared to other parts of the world but its probably due to the fact that most Canadians end up buying their planes cash as banks are not very plane financing friendly....weird right? To my knowledge there are no schools with any NG's and doing a model/make search on Transport Canada website does not show any Canadian Registered NG's.
I like ZAV's comment above where his family asked "why is the prop turning if the engine was off...LOL.
- Keith M
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Re: DA40NG
As a consequence of the VW emissions scandal and the political reality that the only way to reduce pollution levels in our cities is to ban diesel vehicles from entering them, sales of diesel engined cars is plummeting in Europe. Does anybody know how long Austro can keep producing engines, if Mercedes stops manufacturing them? I know Thielert were severely affected when Mercedes stopped manufacturing the 1.7 litre engine that they were using, and had to design and manufacture their own block in aluminium to avoid the weight issues due to the replacement 2 litre engine's steel block, which Austro went on to use.
- CFIDave
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Re: DA40NG
There aren't many DA40 NGs yet in North America because until recently NGs were only being produced in Austria. Because of currency exchange and shipping costs, NG pricing was far higher than Canada-built Lycoming DA40s in North America.gordsh wrote:For some reason even though its made here in Canada we don't have very many compared to other parts of the world
That's changed with Diamond Canada building DA40 NGs now, and a price cut that makes the NG only slightly more expensive than a new Lycoming DA40 XLT (which is temporarily out of production while awaiting G1000 NXi certification).
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
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Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI