Trying to decide
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
Trying to decide
Well I passed my checkride few weeks back. I have about 74 hours all in a C172p. But now that I am trying to figure out what plane I should go with it's been a hard battle. My brothers father in-law is a DA rep. He pointed me to the DA40. But I have no experience with it. In San Antonio there is no school that carries DA40s. My mission would be normal weekend trips min 150 nm each way.. once a year long trip to New Orleans, New Mexico, and something similar. Looking for something that moves fairly quick. I weigh 175 and the wife 132. It would be nice if we could take another couple on few trips. I hear great things about DA40s and also negative things. I worry about payload and the Texas heat. If anyone knows someone in San Antonio with a DA40 please let me know. I am battling looking at the DA40, C182, and Sr 20. Also has anyone heard about the diamond share program? Is it worth it? Any input would be great.
- Steve
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Re: Trying to decide
Wild:
I have a 2001 DA40 at Kestrel Airpark (1T7). It is a little slower than the newer models, but fine for my mission, which is flights around the area, plus longer trips to FL, NM, AZ. I'd be happy to fly you in it. Not sure if you have access to the message feature here, but my email is: chalfin@uthscsa (dot) edu.
Steve
I have a 2001 DA40 at Kestrel Airpark (1T7). It is a little slower than the newer models, but fine for my mission, which is flights around the area, plus longer trips to FL, NM, AZ. I'd be happy to fly you in it. Not sure if you have access to the message feature here, but my email is: chalfin@uthscsa (dot) edu.
Steve
Re: Trying to decide
Sent you an email. Also heard that 2003-2004 model with 6 pack had better leg room and CG? Was just thinking can use 6 pack for my IR training then after always updrade 6 pack with newer and lighter g1000 or similar compared to older model g1000 which weighed more.
- rwtucker
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Re: Trying to decide
I love my DA40XLS. This said, it is not a four place aircraft unless your mission works with 15-20 gallons of 100LL and/or the average weight of your two couples is well below the US mean. Even then, you will want to avoid models like mine that have an aft-CG problem. One other potential weakness to consider is that most DA40s demand a smooth paved runway, no factor if your mission does not involve backcountry or rural flying,
In exchange for these weaknesses, you get a fast, efficient, and well designed and assembled aircraft with an exceptional safety record.
You may want to look at the C182 if you want a true four passenger aircraft that is versatile across a wide range of missions (including short runway backcountry dirt airstrips), is quiet and roomy inside, has a good payload, handles well in high crosswinds, has a very long and well understood performance and safety record, and is generally less expensive to maintain. The downsides to the older design C182 are that it is less efficient and not quite as fast (C182T excepted).
There are some newer aircraft worth exploring as well but given that you trained on a C172, a used C182 might be a perfect transition for you. If it is in your budget, I think the C400 is one of the best upgrades on today's market. it is kind of like the original DA50 that Diamond promised in 2009 and never followed through on.
In exchange for these weaknesses, you get a fast, efficient, and well designed and assembled aircraft with an exceptional safety record.
You may want to look at the C182 if you want a true four passenger aircraft that is versatile across a wide range of missions (including short runway backcountry dirt airstrips), is quiet and roomy inside, has a good payload, handles well in high crosswinds, has a very long and well understood performance and safety record, and is generally less expensive to maintain. The downsides to the older design C182 are that it is less efficient and not quite as fast (C182T excepted).
There are some newer aircraft worth exploring as well but given that you trained on a C172, a used C182 might be a perfect transition for you. If it is in your budget, I think the C400 is one of the best upgrades on today's market. it is kind of like the original DA50 that Diamond promised in 2009 and never followed through on.
- Steve
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Re: Trying to decide
Got it. I'll give you a call tonight. The 2003-04 models did have a little better front legroom than the earlier ones like mine. I don't have a problem at 6 feet, but my 6' 3" son barely fits. Definitely not as roomy as a C182, but much better visibility. My full-fuel payload is 601 pounds, I haven't done the GW increase SB. If you take passengers similar or slightly above you and your wife's weights and take minimal luggage, in my airplane you would be able to do so with a slight reduction in fuel load.Wildair17 wrote:Sent you an email. Also heard that 2003-2004 model with 6 pack had better leg room and CG? Was just thinking can use 6 pack for my IR training then after always updrade 6 pack with newer and lighter g1000 or similar compared to older model g1000 which weighed more.
Steve
- Rich
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Re: Trying to decide
With the 3 models you mentioned, keep in mind that all 3 have been produced in various configurations over a number of years.
The 182, having been produced over a time span of almost 60 years (with a 10-year hiatus in the late 80's/early 90's) is widely variant, with turbo, retractable gear, different fuel capacities and such. Some examples of this model actually have limited full-fuel payload. The early ones, for example, and some because they have humongous fuel-carrying capacity.
The DA40 with different gear, avionics options, baggage volume, fuel tank options, etc. also varies quite a bit. I have a 935 lb. useful load, for example and, given I have 40-gallon tanks, can carry 2-300 lb. couples and still have a 95 lb margin. And it's almost impossibly to load out of CG. Yep, it is somewhat of a technological dinosaur, having a six-pack. But I can do coupled WAAS approaches nonetheless. My plane is slower (~140 knots) than the newer ones, but I can do an out-and-back of 150 nm each way without refueling, if it's VFR. Others, as stated, have faster DA40's but some are marginal in carrying capacity.
The SR20 also has at least one big change along the way. The early ones are true dogs in the takeoff and climb area. I've watched them struggle off a 3,000 ft., 600 ft. elevation paved runway. A few years ago, Cirrus changed the wing (longer wingspan, who knew) and the newer ones are known to be better.
Complicating all this is that, for all of these planes, the older the one you look at, the more likely it is to not resemble any other one of it's same model/year, due to various mods that prior owners have had installed. My plane, for example, has had 11 modifications of since delivery in '02. Several of which were to get to that higher-than-delivered payload.
The 182, having been produced over a time span of almost 60 years (with a 10-year hiatus in the late 80's/early 90's) is widely variant, with turbo, retractable gear, different fuel capacities and such. Some examples of this model actually have limited full-fuel payload. The early ones, for example, and some because they have humongous fuel-carrying capacity.
The DA40 with different gear, avionics options, baggage volume, fuel tank options, etc. also varies quite a bit. I have a 935 lb. useful load, for example and, given I have 40-gallon tanks, can carry 2-300 lb. couples and still have a 95 lb margin. And it's almost impossibly to load out of CG. Yep, it is somewhat of a technological dinosaur, having a six-pack. But I can do coupled WAAS approaches nonetheless. My plane is slower (~140 knots) than the newer ones, but I can do an out-and-back of 150 nm each way without refueling, if it's VFR. Others, as stated, have faster DA40's but some are marginal in carrying capacity.
The SR20 also has at least one big change along the way. The early ones are true dogs in the takeoff and climb area. I've watched them struggle off a 3,000 ft., 600 ft. elevation paved runway. A few years ago, Cirrus changed the wing (longer wingspan, who knew) and the newer ones are known to be better.
Complicating all this is that, for all of these planes, the older the one you look at, the more likely it is to not resemble any other one of it's same model/year, due to various mods that prior owners have had installed. My plane, for example, has had 11 modifications of since delivery in '02. Several of which were to get to that higher-than-delivered payload.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
Re: Trying to decide
Thanks everyone for your input. Mentally i picture carrying 4 people. But i have no kids. Just the wife and I and 2 shitzus lol.. so 80% of trips will just be us. I worry about buying more than I need. Someone brought up the c210. But my wife cringed. Back story is that the wife was not supportive of my venture to fly. After I passed my checkride few weeks back I took her up for a nice sunset downtown tour of San Antonio ( not much to see) it's was a smooth ride.. she enjoyed it. She is now asking about taking little weekend trips. But when she sees the older planes it freaks her out.
Either or. I am wondering for the price maybe looking at 2003-4 model with 6pack. I enjoy the pack and think would benefit me during IR training. Then maybe upgrade to G500.
I might try to find few people to partner with me if I could. Mostly because I want the plane flying.
Either or. I am wondering for the price maybe looking at 2003-4 model with 6pack. I enjoy the pack and think would benefit me during IR training. Then maybe upgrade to G500.
I might try to find few people to partner with me if I could. Mostly because I want the plane flying.
- Colin
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Re: Trying to decide
I have always said that I didn't think there was a better plane for the first 500 hours than the DA40. Maybe there will be times that you can't take all the people you want with you. Maybe there are times you need to land and walk around to stretch your legs and rest your back from a seat that has a single position. But it is so forgiving that I believe that outweighs those considerations. At least for me, by a wide margin. After you have had it for two and a half years you will know much more about the kind of missions you are doing and whether you should get a DA42, a C210 or just slip a G500 into it.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
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- Rich
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Re: Trying to decide
This would be a good thing. It can be hard to keep the plane properly exercised all by yourself.Wildair17 wrote: I might try to find few people to partner with me if I could. Mostly because I want the plane flying.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
Re: Trying to decide
I just wanted to thank Steve for taking the time on a last minute call from me to invite me in his 2001 DA40 180. I really enjoyed the ride and the chat. Thanks for all the replies as well. Its fun but hard to really pick a plane. But I am leaning toward a DA40.