DA40 XL v XLS

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DAC

DA40 XL v XLS

Post by DAC »

Hi....I am currently considering purchase of my next plane after a 4 year gap...I am based in the U.K. and would want to operate off a 800m grass runway. I was originally attracted to the potential of 150 knot cruise and running costs of XLS but have been contacted by someone with an XL (apologies if you are on here!)...so my questions are...

- is there a performance difference between the XL and XLS variants of the DA40?
- will either truly hit 150 knots?
- can a DA40 be operated safely off 800m grass (well kept)?

I've owned many airplanes in the past from C210 to Partnevia Spartacus....however I'm not getting any richer so looking for something that won't break the bank to own, is safe and will get close to 150knots. I've debated a Cirrus SR22 for speed but it may not suit grass and having owned a SR20 in the past I'm not a fan of slow flight handling (but maybe that's just me).
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Colin
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Re: DA40 XL v XLS

Post by Colin »

I think you are correct on the slow flight handling, at least on the first three wings, after that my data runs out.

2,600 feet of grass is certainly something I would be comfortably with most of the time, it would depend on a little on the surrounding terrain and how loaded the plane was most of the time.

For speed I think there is a spreadsheet or something in the wiki that talks about various planes speed. As far as I know the XL and XLS are just trim differences, not airframe or powerplant differences, so I don't think you would see a speed difference. When I pushed my 2007 straight DA40 at the higher RPMs in cruise I'd get 145 knots true without doing anything drastic. I cruised at 138kts most of the time because I like it quieter (and I like being in the sky). I would think a PowerFlow exhaust and a well-tweaked plane would get you pretty close to 150 knots true.
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Antoine
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Re: DA40 XL v XLS

Post by Antoine »

Hello DAC
I can answer your question based upon personal experience:
I sold my DA40 XL last year after 700 hours of pure delight, rented my friend's XLS since then, put 150 hours on it and finally bought it outright as a temporary solution while waiting for my other aircraft to fly - (it is the swiss one advertised on PlaneCheck).

This specific XLS is consistently faster (3-4 knots) than my former XL.
So, yes, this XLS really does 150 KTAS in fast cruise up to maybe 9'000 feet.
It needs 10-10.5 GPH to do so (75% power). Typical 65% cruise speeds are north of 145 at 9.3-9.5 GPH.

I never managed to get my XL this fast, despite trying really hard (aerodynamic details, engine tweaking, W&B).

The XLS has this weird-looking bubble canopy and taller main landing gear struts.
Do these things make it faster? - I have no clue, but I noticed the HondaJet also has a kind of bubble at the cockpit level and it is the fastest in its class...

The DA40 XLS does not come with active traffic avoidance as standard (it was standard on the XL) and I advise you to make sure you get an aircraft that already has it - it is a life saver.
On the other hand, the XL does not have WAAS. It is a stupidly expensive upgrade - around 25 K Euros, I'll let you calculate the sterling rate "a la minute" can't keep up !
WAAS is becoming very significant in Europe. I know a couple of airfields in France where the ILS is already decommissioned and a few that only have RNAV. If you're flying IFR, you will fond out that you need WAAS.

Yes, the DA40 will happily operate off a grass airfield. Its landing gear is very strong and its soft field technique is easily mastered. Depending upon the condition of the grass, you may want to remove the wheel pants (and lose 5-7 knots, ouch).
800 meters is plenty, no worries, but as we know, your mileage will vary a lot depending upon the condition of the strip.
I don't know anyone who operates a Cirrus off a grass runway.
Enjoy your quest and hope to count you as a happy member of our community soon!
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Re: DA40 XL v XLS

Post by CFIDave »

Additional features of 2008+ XLS compared to 2007 XL model:
1. 1 inch taller bubble canopy
2. WAAS for flying GPS LPV approaches
3. VNAV button on GFC700 autopilot for vertical descents
4. Upgraded interior with fake woodgrain trim, additional vinyl padding on center console and sides, and optional orange "curry" seats (instead of gray) available at no additional cost.
5. Deletion of standard Avidyne TAS600 active traffic (offered as an extra-cost factory option instead)
6. Nose ballast (almost 20 lbs) with MT 3-bladed prop to make rear seats more useful at the expense of useful load. Note: Early 2008 XLS models didn't have this.
7. Popular factory option of G1000 Synthetic Vision became available around April of 2008.

Most of these features or options can be retrofitted to the XL at additional cost.

Otherwise, the planes fly the same with nearly identical performance; both are equipped with the same "speed gear," Powerflow exhaust, and standard MT 3-blade prop, extended range fuel tanks, etc.

(Diamond trivia fact: Early 2007 XL models were supposed to be fitted with winglets to reduce wingspan and fit into smaller hangars, but Diamond Canada gave up on this when they discovered that the XL with its bigger extended range fuel tanks (with a higher polar moment of inertia) would not recover from a spin quickly enough for FAA certification. Thus some early XL buyers got a refund.)
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Hetch

Re: DA40 XL v XLS

Post by Hetch »

Hi Antoine,

I am also a prospective DA40 xls buyer. Regarding your advice to get active traffic, wouldn't complying with the ADS-B requirements fulfill the same objective? Thus making the plane just as safe as one with active traffic monitoring? You can guess why I am asking lol

Thank you.
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Re: DA40 XL v XLS

Post by Antoine »

Hi Hetch

ADS-B in will only report ADS-B traffic - my newly rebuilt Extra 400 has both ADS-B and conventional TCAS using old style direct transponder interrogation
DAC

Re: DA40 XL v XLS

Post by DAC »

So.....what would be the expected price difference of a 2007 XL to a 2008 XLS assuming both have active traffic and same times and condition ? Realize this is a very subjective question!
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Re: DA40 XL v XLS

Post by Antoine »

I sold my 2007 in 2015 for 195k€ with 700 hours. The 2008 XLS with 560 hours costs 210 K€, but it also has a DME and SynVis which my XL didn't have.
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Re: DA40 XL v XLS

Post by Rich »

Hetch wrote:Hi Antoine,

I am also a prospective DA40 xls buyer. Regarding your advice to get active traffic, wouldn't complying with the ADS-B requirements fulfill the same objective? Thus making the plane just as safe as one with active traffic monitoring? You can guess why I am asking lol

Thank you.
In the US, this will come to be mostly true in about 3 years. Less so today. Qualifiers for today's situation:

1. You need some form of ADS-B IN to detect such traffic. As a practical matter, dual-band IN is a must.
2. Right now most aircraft are not ADS-B mandate compliant, so you mostly see traffic responding to interrogation picked up by ground radar and relayed to the ADS-B infrastructure.
3. Today, to be able to see non-ADS-B traffic you need to be in range of at least one of the ADS-B towers. Right now this is most, but not all, US airspace above a few hundred feet AGL. In some spots it's available all the way to the surface.

In 2020:
1. 1 (above) still applies.
2. If one assumes 100% conformity to regulations. You would see every bit of traffic with ADS-B that you would see with TCAS.
3. 100% regulation conformance is a big assumption. But the percentage of willfully non-conforming aircraft you'd encounter that would instead have their transponders operating is an interesting question. So how much better TCAS would be is debatable.

Outside the US, the state of usefulness of ADS-B varies widely, since large percentages of aircraft may not be subject to ADS-B requirements at all.

In any case you will never see, today or in any future scenario, aircraft without an operating transponder or ADS-B OUT system, whether legally or illegally, with either TCAS or ADS-B IN.
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Re: DA40 XL v XLS

Post by Lance Murray »

Take a look at the Steam gage 2002-2003 DA40's. They have a far better useful load and far better CG. I regularly cruise at 138-142kts in my 2002.
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