What is the true cost of owning a DA20?

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OmegaWulf

What is the true cost of owning a DA20?

Post by OmegaWulf »

Hello all, I’m doing some research to see how much it costs to own an airplane. I’m hoping I can afford one in 2-3 years, but right now I’m looking to see if I’ll even be able to afford it at all. I’ve posted on other general aviation forums before asking about cost and the typical answer is “it depends,” which is accurate if not helpful. Much of that ‘it depends’ relates to the aircraft type/mfg./model/year that I get that. So, since a Diamond DA20 is at the top of my list of possible models, I thought it would be better to actually ask people who own that specific aircraft.
What I’m looking for are your experiences, especially with costs, to owning a DA20. I understand that many people don’t like to give exact dollar amounts, but if you could, that’d be really helpful. Before I get to my specific questions, I’d like to give you a little background on myself. This may help you in answering my questions.

Background
It was 21 years ago that I got my private pilot's license...and I haven't flown since because it has been too expensive. But I thought that maybe by my 50th birthday (which is in 2017), I'd have saved enough to buy my own plane and get back into flying. Aaaanddd…that isn’t going as planned. However, it is starting to look like maybe things will be better financially for me in 2 to 3 years.

When I flew, I had 117.6 SEL hours in C172P’s and N’s, and 182RGs, with 60.7 of that solo, 58.2 cross country, and 73.1 pilot in command. Only 6 hours was in the RG, all PIC but none of it solo or cross country. I figure I will need another 20 hours to get back up to speed.

Financially, I make around $61k a year. I have a mortgage ($1k/mo. including property taxes and insurance) but other than that, my biggest debt is a car loan, which will be paid off by the time I looking to actually buy a plane. I’m not married and have no kids or other such family financial drains. My credit is also good (in 700’s). Of course, not being married and having a 2nd person with income means I have to pay for everything myself. Still, I believe that when I’m ready to purchase a plane, I can devote at least $1,000 a month for it. That’s for everything; loan payments, gas, maintenance, hangar fees, etc... that is needed. I live in the DFW area (Denton, TX) so that’s where I’ll be keeping my plane, for what that’s worth as far as prices go for anything related. As far as a DA20 goes, I don’t think I could afford a new one on a $1k/mo. budget, but I have seen used ones (1995-early 2000’s) that I possibly could afford…?

Mission
I’ve seen people ask about “what’s your mission?” whenever someone asks about aircraft ownership online. I find that funny—it makes me think I’m buying a military aircraft; “sir, my mission is to bomb Jerry into submission and end this terrible war, sir!” But I think what they really mean is “how do you intend to use the aircraft?” Given that, my ‘mission’ is for personal enjoyment. Most of the time, I’ll probably be flying around the local area to keep my skills up and just have fun flying. Included in that are short cross country trips, maybe under 100 miles (somewhere I can fly to and be back within a day) or so. I think at least 2 hours a week on average for 100 hours a year. However, I will also be using it for longer cross country trips a couple of times a year. I live in Texas but I have family in Wisconsin, so I’d like to fly up there at least once a year. Then, maybe a few jaunts around the south area for mini-vacations. Say, flying to Houston, Corpus Christi, or New Orleans. I don’t plan flying anywhere where I will have to go over mountains or large bodies of water (unless I win the lottery and get specific training in that) or out of the country. Mostly VFR, but I am considering getting an IFR rating in the future.

Given that, here are my questions to you regarding owning a DA20:

Model Differences
First of all, there seem to be many different DA20 models, such as DA20-A Katana, DA20-100 Katana 100, DA20-C1 Katana, DA20-C1 Evolution, etc… What are the differences and is any better than the other? Also, I’ve only ever flown high wing/yoke controlled aircraft and the DA20 is a low wing/stick controlled. Do you think the transition would be any problem or is it no big deal?

Oh, and I read somewhere that DA20’s aren’t certified for IFR. Is that true? Or maybe only for a specific model/year? I’d like to get an aircraft that is IFR capable for future IFR training.

Financing
It is not too difficult to find cost calculators online to get a ball bark estimate of how much it would cost finance an aircraft. But what are the actual costs? If you care to share what your actual costs are, that’d be great. But if you don’t want to do that, estimating what it might cost me (based on make of aircraft, my financials, and piloting experience) based on your experience would be fine too.

Also, what have been your general experiences with financing? I know that ads for financing like to list their best terms (3% for 20 years!!) but the reality is you often don’t get that. Would it even be possible for me to finance, say, a $55,000 1998 DA20 for 15 or 20 years at 4%? I know I should probably ask a financing company this question but they usually won’t give you even a ball park figure unless you give them specific aircraft details.

Insurance
How much does it cost to insure a DA20? Again, actual numbers would be great, but even a ball park figure based on your experience is fine too. Any insurance concerns I need to take into account? Any type of coverage I should definitely get/stay away from?

Annuals/Overhauls/Maintenance
Now the biggie—how much does it cost to maintain and operate a DA20? I know this is another one of those ‘it depends’ type of questions, which is where the more actual costs I can get, the better I can judge what my costs might be. Below, I have more specific questions regarding operating costs, so even just telling me in general how much it costs for your DA20 that would be helpful:
• How much did/are you expecting an engine overhaul to cost? At how many hours did you need/expect the overhaul?
• How much is your annual? Is that typical year to year or does it vary widely?
• How much fuel per hour does your DA20 burn at cruise? (Yes, I know I can find charts online to tell me this, but there is a difference between ‘real world’ and ‘paper’ specs).
• What maintenance issues have you come across so far and how much did they cost to fix? What were the costs of any parts?
• Are DA20 parts easy or hard to find?
• What do you normally set aside per hour of flight and what do you include in that per hour rate? Do you add any reserve amount?
• Speaking of reserves, when I’m ready to actually buy a plane, should I already have a certain amount set aside for unseen expenses that might come up right away?

Additional Expenses
Finally, what additional costs do I need to consider? I know that I need to consider financing the cost of the aircraft and insurance. I also know I need to consider hangar or tie-down costs. The annual inspection is another cost I'm aware of, as is the engine overhaul. Gas and oil are obvious as well. Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for your help!
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Colin
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Re: What is the true cost of owning a DA20?

Post by Colin »

I believe you should look into being partners in a DA40 in your area. Or a DA20, but I believe there are more DA40s around to BE a partner in. For the amount of flying you are talking about, and the sort of flying, there's no reason to own the entire plane. And it drastically changes the math to have a few flying friends splitting the costs with you.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
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OmegaWulf

Re: What is the true cost of owning a DA20?

Post by OmegaWulf »

@Colin

Unfortunately, there aren't any. Oh, sure, there are flight clubs and partial ownership, but not for Diamonds that I found. That's not to say I 'must' have a Diamond--it is just at the top of my list based on what I've learned so far; modern, easy to fly, good on fuel. I may end up with a 1967 Piper Cherokee 140 or no plane at all. It really depends on what I can afford, if I can afford anything at all. I would prefer not to rent or do a partial ownership. This is purely a personal preference--I know full ownership is the most expensive route. A (super) expensive hobby if you will. I figured, "why not? What else do I have to spend my money on?" I don't have to worry about alimony or sending kids through college nor leaving someone behind an inheritance. And I can't take it with me when I die! So I might as well enjoy it before I'm too old to.

That is, IF I can even afford it at all. It has been hard to get good, concrete information on that, unfortunately.
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Rich
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Re: What is the true cost of owning a DA20?

Post by Rich »

I don't own a 20, but a 40 (and several more types before that). I'll answer a couple of questions, though:

No DA20 is IFR certified. Many complaints about this here on the forum. It can be used for instrument rating training, but is not certified to be flown in actual IMC.

Yes, you will need to have a cash reserve on day 1 and keep it. How much is open to debate, but this is true for all aircraft types. There is some leeway here if it is purchased new and is under warranty for awhile. But the reality is stuff fails at unpredictable times and almost all of it costs more than you'd expect. I used to fly another guy's M35 Bonanza and he had a cable break that was part of the nose wheel extend/retract mechanism. It was so expensive he flew it as a fixed-gear aircraft for about 3-4 months until he got the funds together to get it fixed :cry: I have the luxury of not having to worry about this because since before the time I bought the Star I have always had plenty of cash on hand. But most folks need to take care to be prepared for that unanticipated $5-6K repair bill. (On a related note, most aircraft in the US these days have a $5K or so bill pending to get them in compliance with ADS-B Out.)
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Re: What is the true cost of owning a DA20?

Post by Kai »

Nobody will be able to reply to your question reliably. There are too many different costs which are hard to foresee. We can just guess. To start off, you can do some numbers for yourself: get quotes for insurance, financing, hangar rent, etc. Financing makes flying more expensive, so I would start thinking of a plane that you can pay for with the money you have and keep another $5-10k as a reserve for those unforeseeable, nasty maintenance bills. I flew a DA40 and have seen bills north of $12k

As a general hint: Diamond aircraft are usually more expensive to maintain, especially when you rely on spare parts from Diamond. So when you are on a budget, Diamond is not the first choice.

And if you decide to go for a DA20, get an older DA20 for $60k, park it on the apron with a cover and do all the maintenance you can possibly do by yourself. Source the spare parts on the internet and be at the airfield every weekend to make sure your bird stays in shape. $1000 a month will definitely be enough then and buy you a lot of flying time.

EDIT: fuel flow of a DA20 varies on the engine... For a Rotax-equipped think of 4.5 gallons per hour, but they can be flown with less and also with more. It all depends on your flying.
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OmegaWulf

Re: What is the true cost of owning a DA20?

Post by OmegaWulf »

@ Rich
Thanks, all the info I can get helps! I didn't even know about ADS-B Out until you brought it up! This is good stuff to know.

@Kai
Actually, anybody can reply to my questions reliably, if they understand the context of what I'm asking for. That's not anybody's fault, except maybe mine for not explaining well enough. I keep thinking I am but it appears that's not the case.

Perhaps an example? Instead of a DA20, let's say I was looking for a DA40, like you have. You could certainly answer some of my questions like, "I didn't need to finance my DA40 so I don't know about that, but my insurance is $1,200 a year. My annuals usually run me $800. No problems is the two years I've owner her, so far." Now, someone else who owns a DA40--let's call him Joe--could reply, "my insurance is only $1,000 a year, but I have a slightly older plane than Kai but 1,000 more PIC hours. I did finance $50,000 of the cost of my plane, and let me tell you, the process is full of extra costs they don't tell you up front! I also paid 8% interest!" (I'm making all this numbers up, of course).

Does this make sense? I'm data mining, basically. The more people respond, the more I can see trends. For the example I gave above, I could already tell that I should expect to pay around $1,200 for insurance and that insurance companies do take into account the age of the aircraft as well as your experience (just like auto insurers do). These would be things I didn't know before. And the more I hear about people's maintenance costs, the better I can not only gauge typical costs for things, but if the aircraft type/model is a money pit--relative to other models--or not.

Am I making any sense? Even if I'm not, thanks for your response.
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Re: What is the true cost of owning a DA20?

Post by RMarkSampson »

OW,

I'm a DA-20 owner. It is certainly an inexpensive plane to fly - I never look at the fuel gauge in flight and see $$ flowing, only the amount of enjoyment left in the tank. Parts are certainly expensive from Diamond but I've not experienced a big hit. My costs are mainly in the upgrades (ADS-B etc) I wanted to get.

I started a club here in Florida for my DA-20. Mostly as a way my numerous pilot-friends could legally share in the costs per the FAA and IRS rules. It has been a good adventure and the social part increases the enjoyment for all - plus it has curbed some of the cost of ownership which has allowed me to focus on the upgrades in the cockpit. I have a A&P and CFII friend in the club which turns out to be a key ingredient in keeping the plane is top shape and flying regularly.
OmegaWulf

Re: What is the true cost of owning a DA20?

Post by OmegaWulf »

Thanks, RMarkSampson!

"Inexpensive" is, of course, a relative term. I mentioned that I expect to have a monthly budget of $1,000 for all associated costs. Would you say that is reasonable or more is required (consider $350-$400 of that is for financing)?

For your flying club, do you need to do 100 hours inspections as well as annuals? What about insurance if others break your plane? I heard from someone in a flying club who gave an example of a disadvantage; their club had a Mooney, with retractable gear, and one of the members made a gear up landing! He said that he had to pay his part for repairs on that, even though it wasn't his fault.

You mentioned a mechanic in your club. I assume he can work on Diamonds? I don't know how the A&P qualifications work, so I'm curious to know if it is relatively 'easy' for any A&P to work on a DA20 or if they have to be certified per model or something like that. I'd hate to buy a DA20 only to find out the nearest mechanic is 250 miles away!
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Re: What is the true cost of owning a DA20?

Post by Colin »

250nm sounds like a nice excuse for a flight... Of course, you need to make friends with some people on the field to then pick you up and drop you back when it is complete...

Any excuse to fly.
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Re: What is the true cost of owning a DA20?

Post by thefoxx »

Omegawulf: I was just in your position 6-9 months ago! Same questions, same hesitations!

I'm new to the DA20 ownership world since about this past May, and am having an absolute blast with it! It's a 2001 DA-20 C1, and so far, haven't had any real surprises (knock on wood), but just getting it back up to a maintained level that I prefer, and doing upgrades (Interior, LED lighting, etc).

First bill so far has been $1,700 for repairing some gaskets in the engine, nose gear bearings, nose gear rubber pucks.

I chose the DA20 for similar reasons you are looking for - something affordable to get into, modern (not the tin can style of AC that everyone else has) and economical to operate. It turns heads and ALWAYS has people coming and taking a look at it wherever I go - people really like the modern airframes.

I may consider a DA40 in the future mostly for the bells, whistles and IFR capabilities, but for my mission right now which is just personal fun flying within 30-300nm, my DA20 fits the bill just perfect!

I'm sorry I can't answer anything more accurate, but I think as long as you get a good pre-buy inspection, and that it was previously well maintained, you're not going to regret your decision at all and she will hold her value real well too.

There's something magical about climbing into that cockpit, lowering the canopy, and getting it in the air. A feeling that an old C150 or other "everyday airframe" just can't replace when you fly a Diamond!
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