Austro AE300 Engine Discussion

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dave-apf

Austro AE300 Engine Discussion

Post by dave-apf »

Hi there,

I am potentially interested in an Austro powered DA42. I understand the scheduled maintenance requirements are defined but so far with aircraft ownership, it's the unscheduled items that are of more interest.

Perhaps actual owners/operators of the engine could help answer:

- How frequently do unscheduled Austro AE300 events occur?
- What are the events and associated costs?
- How does the frequency of the unscheduled event seem to compare to say an IO360?
- Has anyone ever had to shutdown an Austro in flight?

Thanks to all who reply. It would be super if the detail focused only on the AE300 powerplant and not other items.

Dave
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Re: Austro AE300 Engine Discussion

Post by CFIDave »

By virtue of your asking about "unscheduled" AE300 events, it's tough to answer the question about frequency of occurrence -- there's no database of such events.

I am unaware of anyone who has had to purposely shut down (nor experienced an unscheduled shut-down) of an Austro engine in flight. (I'm not counting DA40 NG engine shut-downs caused by students accidentally mistaking the engine master switch for the electric fuel pump switch -- that's now been addressed by relocating the switches on the DA40 NG panel.) This is in contrast to Thielert (now Continental) diesel engines in which multiple uncommanded in-flight shutdowns have taken place.

I would suggest that Austro engines are at least as reliable as the Lycoming IO-360 of the DA40 (which itself is quite reliable). AE300s are, after all, real Mercedes OM640 automobile engines of which Mercedes built more than a million for their A- and B-class cars. No way can Lycoming or Continental match the statistical quality control of a mass-produced automobile engine.

From my experience, Austro Engine problems tend to be relatively minor -- none of which have affected my aircraft's dispatch reliability. For example, on the Austro engines on my DA42, I had a tiny radiator leak that got fixed under warranty, and more recently a minor oil leak requiring replacement of an O-ring around the oil temperature sensor. I experienced an alternator failure in flight, but the other engine alternator automatically picked up the full load and I continued to my destination IFR uneventfully.

The bottom line for me is that I'd never want to go back to an avgas engine: I'm spoiled by Austro engine ease of starting when hot or cold, fuel economy, smoothness and quietness, no need for pre-heat in the winter, single-lever power control (no need to manage prop or mixture), 100 hour (rather than 50 hour) oil changes, etc.
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Re: Austro AE300 Engine Discussion

Post by Colin »

At 1,050 hours my left engine needed the starter replaced. It was not an in-flight failure, obviously. It was $1,200 parts and labor.
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Re: Austro AE300 Engine Discussion

Post by carym »

I wonder if the starters are a problem, or if this is what we should expect. I had to replace one under warranty within a few months of acquiring the plane, and then replaced another at about 700 hours.
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Re: Austro AE300 Engine Discussion

Post by dgger »

Yes, I had to shut down an AE300 in flight. The critical (left) one. Twice.

The first event occurred climbing through FL100 in VMC where I first noticed an ECU A FAIL indication immediately followed by an ECU B FAIL one. The engine suffered a near complete loss of power and I voluntarily shut it down. I attempted a restart that resulted in an overspeed condition, so I shut it down for good and returned to Wiener Neustadt from where I had departed.

The second shut down occurred only two days after the alleged repair at DAI (DAI had replaced a perfectly working governor, but did not fix the issue). Again climbing through FL100, only in IMC. Approximately identical loss of power. This time the first troublesome indication showing was ENGINE FIRE. So I shut down the engine and aimed for the nearest ILS.

Both times the prop would feather and I could maintain control over the aircraft just fine.

I thought I should post this as you asked for experiences. However, this is anecdotal and unfortunately there is no real good data regarding these events other than at DAI/Austro and the Austrian Aviation Authority. Neither of them publish any data and Austria does not have a Freedom of Information Act or similar legislation that would allow a retrieval. I have tried to further dig into this, but the Austrian Aviation Authority quite plainly told me, they see it as their role to protect the interests of DAI (Seriously. No kidding!). Who protects the interest of owners/pilots/operators is beyond me...
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Re: Austro AE300 Engine Discussion

Post by Colin »

Peter what was repaired the second time?
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Re: Austro AE300 Engine Discussion

Post by dgger »

I am afraid I have never fully understood what _exactly_ had caused the issue; and I have not seen the invoice as I was chartering the aircraft.

However, DAI had given two reasons for the loss of power. One was "thermal stress" on the CAM sensor connector as a result of improper cabling. The CAM sensor connector was replaced according to DAI. The second issue involved an EPW valve, which also had experienced "thermal stress" and also was replaced.

Talking to DAI my take-away has been that failure had caused a gradual loss of turbo pressure, which was in line with the engine read-outs. This would explain some loss power at the altitude I was at. However, it did not explain the amount of power I had actually lost. I never managed to completely resolve this.

The aircraft has been returned to service and has not experience this issue since, so I assume at least the parts involved have been properly identified.
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Re: Austro AE300 Engine Discussion

Post by Aart »

Dave-apf,

I don't know whether you are considering only an Austro-equipped DA42 and whether that's a -VI or or an NG or whether you also consider Conti-equipped ones, but since CFI-Dave also mentioned Conti, here's my views:

1. Don't touch the 1.7 litre Conti, or if you do, make sure you have an upgrade path to either Austro or Conti 2.0 or 2.0S engines

2. It is not entirely fair to compare the reliability history (including in-flight shutdowns) of Austro and Conti Diesels. The Conti's have a much larger number of hours under their belts. Conti claims a lower in-flight shutdown rate than Avgas engines btw, as you may have read on their website.

3. Conti and Austro are both on a path to higher engine TBOs (Austro)/TBRs (Conti) and increased TBRs for ancillaries. The latest increase of Conti to 2100 hours engine TBR and 1200 hrs TBR for the gearbox is noteworthy.

4. Right now, it looks as if Austro's total operating cost of the engine is lower. Less parts to change out and cheaper TBO than Conti's TBR.

5. I have not heard of any crankcase issues with the Conti's. So, while in theory the cast-iron Austro crankcase should be more reliable, does that actually show up? Mercedes changed from aluminum to cast-iron though, and there must be a reason for that. But rather than strength that could easily have been cost..

6. Austro's come with some drawbacks too. The mass is a lot higher, and you need to operate fuel pumps. Also, the larger size of the engine is reflected in a bulkier nacelle.

If you are willing to spend the money, a brand new -VI is an amazing aircraft. Fast, and a great payload. If you looking for cheaper options, I would not rule out a Conti-equipped one. A DA42TDI with Conti 2.0S engines is good performer, similar to an Austro equipped NG, even better in some respects. If you could find a cheap 1.7 litre donor aircraft that is a clear option.
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Re: Austro AE300 Engine Discussion

Post by carym »

There are a significant number of DA42's at the London site ready for upgrade to whatever engine an individual may want. I know that mine is there with only about 90 hours on airframe and it is not even listed on Diamond's web site as available, but it is.
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dave-apf

Re: Austro AE300 Engine Discussion

Post by dave-apf »

Hi guys,

Thanks for this, highly insightful and some wonderful feedback there. Yes, I am only interested in the Austro equipped aircraft so would prefer to focus the conversation on unscheduled issues/costs for this engine type. I won't give my reasons for preferring it as it would only side track the discussion into another Conti vs Austro topic!

Dave-apf
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