DA20 on gravel?
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
DA20 on gravel?
Hi,
I am a 150 hour pilot returning to flying after a ten year hiatus. I live near Montreal, Quebec (CYHU).
I am considering the purchase of a 1999 DA20-C1 over the next month or so. My mission consists of flying with my girlfriend with two 20 lbs backpacks mostly to asphalt runways, on flights of three hours or less. However, my girlfriend being a biologist, I might have the additional mission to fly to remote parts of northern Ontario and Quebec, where there are lots of unpaved runways, mostly gravel.
Would you consider the DA20 to be acceptable for the occasional use of gravel / unpaved runways in the bush?
The other only option I see would be an old C172 with a metal propeller, but then I'd be cruising a lot slower and I'd be flying a numb pickup truck of an airplane rather than a fun, modern, manoeuvrable airplane.
I once flew in an old C172 from Montreal to Toronto, cruising at 100 knots with a strong headwind, and I had to land and refuel on the way because I wouldn't have made it all the way to my destination with reserve. I found that trip to be painful.
Thanks in advance for your replies!
I am a 150 hour pilot returning to flying after a ten year hiatus. I live near Montreal, Quebec (CYHU).
I am considering the purchase of a 1999 DA20-C1 over the next month or so. My mission consists of flying with my girlfriend with two 20 lbs backpacks mostly to asphalt runways, on flights of three hours or less. However, my girlfriend being a biologist, I might have the additional mission to fly to remote parts of northern Ontario and Quebec, where there are lots of unpaved runways, mostly gravel.
Would you consider the DA20 to be acceptable for the occasional use of gravel / unpaved runways in the bush?
The other only option I see would be an old C172 with a metal propeller, but then I'd be cruising a lot slower and I'd be flying a numb pickup truck of an airplane rather than a fun, modern, manoeuvrable airplane.
I once flew in an old C172 from Montreal to Toronto, cruising at 100 knots with a strong headwind, and I had to land and refuel on the way because I wouldn't have made it all the way to my destination with reserve. I found that trip to be painful.
Thanks in advance for your replies!
- Kai
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Re: DA20 on gravel?
Hi Pascal,
there might not be a clear answer. A DA20 is "acceptable", means you can land on unpaved, compacted runways and grass strips. But there are good reasons why it is unusual and most people with this mission would opt for another plane. The low wing configuration might lead to small stones damaging your prop and wings' leading edges a bit and the gelcoat might suffer a bit. The small ground clearance of the prop is another disadvantage and leads to more dust and stones swirling up and damaging the prop and leading edges.
To another point, the DA20 is not a STOL aircraft at all and needs quite a bit of runway to get its wheels up. Also, as you said, you plan to travel with 20 lbs backpacks which will decrease take-off performance even further. It is hard to compare it to a C172 which will give you so much more options when it comes to travel. Quite frankly, the C172 might be even a bit faster (DA20 economic cruise speeds are 110-120 kts) and much more payload, better STOL capabilities and you will pay for it with twice the fuel consumption.
You might want to put into relation what you gain having a more economic plane against the risk of damaging your plane and the comfort and ease you will get having a 4-seater with better STOL capacities.
there might not be a clear answer. A DA20 is "acceptable", means you can land on unpaved, compacted runways and grass strips. But there are good reasons why it is unusual and most people with this mission would opt for another plane. The low wing configuration might lead to small stones damaging your prop and wings' leading edges a bit and the gelcoat might suffer a bit. The small ground clearance of the prop is another disadvantage and leads to more dust and stones swirling up and damaging the prop and leading edges.
To another point, the DA20 is not a STOL aircraft at all and needs quite a bit of runway to get its wheels up. Also, as you said, you plan to travel with 20 lbs backpacks which will decrease take-off performance even further. It is hard to compare it to a C172 which will give you so much more options when it comes to travel. Quite frankly, the C172 might be even a bit faster (DA20 economic cruise speeds are 110-120 kts) and much more payload, better STOL capabilities and you will pay for it with twice the fuel consumption.
You might want to put into relation what you gain having a more economic plane against the risk of damaging your plane and the comfort and ease you will get having a 4-seater with better STOL capacities.
DA40F - N405FP/HS-KAI (sold)
- Derek
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Re: DA20 on gravel?
Hi Pascal
I own a da20 and fly out of Toronto. I've flown c172's a fair bit as well and I much prefer my plane. Biggest resason is cruise speed: I regularly cruise at 120 - 133 knots depending on if I'm in a rush or not and if I have a good tail wind. I don't have wheel pants so I can land on more or less anything. The plane is more efficient at 120 compared to 133 but when you're talking the difference between 6 and 7 gall/hr who really cares in the long run. The best thing I did was upgrade to the better prop several years ago (sorry, I forget the name of it) and cruise speed went from around 120 to 133 at the same power settings. It also has metal leading edges so it is all weather capable. I can't say enough good things about it. IMHO the only reason for a c172 is if you need the two extra seats. Flying difference is pickup truck vs motorbike. One is 30% faster and way more fun.
I own a da20 and fly out of Toronto. I've flown c172's a fair bit as well and I much prefer my plane. Biggest resason is cruise speed: I regularly cruise at 120 - 133 knots depending on if I'm in a rush or not and if I have a good tail wind. I don't have wheel pants so I can land on more or less anything. The plane is more efficient at 120 compared to 133 but when you're talking the difference between 6 and 7 gall/hr who really cares in the long run. The best thing I did was upgrade to the better prop several years ago (sorry, I forget the name of it) and cruise speed went from around 120 to 133 at the same power settings. It also has metal leading edges so it is all weather capable. I can't say enough good things about it. IMHO the only reason for a c172 is if you need the two extra seats. Flying difference is pickup truck vs motorbike. One is 30% faster and way more fun.
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Re: DA20 on gravel?
Also, buy used so you're not worrying about paint nicks, and get Foreflight and stratus so you have synthetic vision, weather, GPS nav, collision avoidance and terrain awareness for less than $2000.
- andrelafrance
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Re: DA20 on gravel?
May I suggest to use the Wood Prop instead, less faster but ideal for gravel. A 172 is not ment for my runway, the DA-20 C-1 can take off from my place, not a 172 full of gaz with 2 people. This 172 have a more agressive prop for banner pulling purposes and was almost full of fule at take of. The pilot is Simon Contant, 4000+ hour of experience on different plane such as Pilatus PC-12, 150, 182, 206 Cessna float plance, Beaver, Navaho and R-44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3m1omOdXrA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3m1omOdXrA
- Rich
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Re: DA20 on gravel?
No UAT infrastructure in Canada, so no weather and for traffic you'd only see aircraft equipped with ADS-B out. And they won't see you unless you are also ADS-B out equipped.Derek wrote:... get Foreflight and stratus so you have synthetic vision, weather, GPS nav, collision avoidance and terrain awareness for less than $2000.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- Rich
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Re: DA20 on gravel?
A well-tended turf strip is one thing, but gravel is a no-go for me. Particularly with a low-wing. I have landed on exactly one gravel strip - in my Cherokee several decades ago. It was seriously dismaying to hear the gravel rattle off the underside of the wings on landing.
And in a separate incident I had occasion to pick up some seriously large gravel with the prop on a Tri-Pacer merely starting to taxi from a non-paved parking space (different airport). I had to give it a bit of a power blast to get it moving and the prop was totaled by amazingly large gravel it sucked off the ground. It is inadvisable to do runups or otherwise apply lots of power over surfaces with loose gravel or other objects beneath the prop of a tricycle-gear airplane. A friend of mine recently left a wrench sitting on the ground and the prop of his C-150 picked it right up and got wrecked when he did a runup.
And in a separate incident I had occasion to pick up some seriously large gravel with the prop on a Tri-Pacer merely starting to taxi from a non-paved parking space (different airport). I had to give it a bit of a power blast to get it moving and the prop was totaled by amazingly large gravel it sucked off the ground. It is inadvisable to do runups or otherwise apply lots of power over surfaces with loose gravel or other objects beneath the prop of a tricycle-gear airplane. A friend of mine recently left a wrench sitting on the ground and the prop of his C-150 picked it right up and got wrecked when he did a runup.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- CFIDave
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Re: DA20 on gravel?
I've landed at a number of poorly-paved runways in the Bahamas. Unfortunately one of them on Andros Island has a parking ramp area with pea gravel, and this caused a few minor nicks in the metal leading edge of our DA42's 3-blade MT props.
So I'd also suggest you stay away from landing (or taxiing!) on gravel.
So I'd also suggest you stay away from landing (or taxiing!) on gravel.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
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Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI