DA20-A1 or DA-20C1 - What should I choose?

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The Foxx

DA20-A1 or DA-20C1 - What should I choose?

Post by The Foxx »

The answer to this from most of you may be obvious, but I'd like to hear people opinions. I really am just weighing all the options and this helps to determine what the best route to go.

I have the opportunity to purchase either an A1-F3 or C1, and both have benefits compared to the other. Budget it original purchase price is also a consideration - the A1's tend to be more economical to buy than the C1 - that is the biggest negative for me, is the additional cost that might put the C1 out of my budget.

My mission is primarily local flights within 1-2 hours but want to also be able to go for the several day XC flights and get there at a reasonable clip. We live in semi-mountainous terrain. I earned my license almost entirely on the A1 so am familiar with it.

Can anyone set me straight and assist me in my purchase decision? Maybe other A1 owners?

A1 Pros:
-economical to operate - 4 gph
-rotax engine overhaul/replacement costs (Rotech located about 1 hour from me)
-Cheaper to buy used
-Ability to use MOGAS

A1 Cons:
-SLOW(ER)
-What else?

C1 Pros
-Faster, gets to destination quicker
-More climb performance - important in mountainous terrain
-Better GPS
-More recognized engine for service

C1 Cons
-Higher Fuel Burn- more
-Bigger overhaul cost
-More expensive to purchase

Thanks in advance - I look forward to the day I can be a TRUE part of this forum instead of the little boy looking through the window and dreaming! I'm close! :thumbsup:
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krellis
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Re: DA20-A1 or DA-20C1 - What should I choose?

Post by krellis »

Welcome to the forum. I have never owned a C1, but have owned an A1 for about 10 years. My son (who has flown the A1 much more than me) thinks the A1 flies better and is more "fun" than the C1.

I think you have covered most of the pros and cons, but let me add my perspective on the A1. The Rotax is expensive, but we have had few issues in close to 600 hours. We had a water pump seal start to leak, which unfortunately did require removal of the engine. We took it to Lockwood and had the 600 hour gearbox inspection done at the same time. That was the most expensive repair we have seen. Everything else has been fairly routine. I know there is/was a flight school in B.C. that had over 3500 hours on a Rotax and it was still going strong. They did on condition repairs. In the U.S., private owners don't have to comply with TBO requirements.

We had some overheating issues that took a while to resolve, but we live in Georgia. You may not have any problems in the Pacific Northwest.

Check the flight control hinges for corrosion. Common problem on both airplanes I believe and a pain to repair - but not horrible. I'm not sure the Continental engine is any more expensive to overhaul than a Rotax - you may want to check. I think there are more AD's out for the C1, but there are lot more of them flying. Check for compliance on either airframe.

One thing in the C1's favor that you did not mention - they are still in production. Not so with the A1 and some parts are harder to come by. You can always convert your A1 to a K100 (expensive upgrade, though) and they are about as fast as the C1. The C1 usually has a higher payload. My son and I can no longer fly together in our A1 - useful load is quite low and we are too heavy.

Hope this helps and good luck!

Krea Ellis
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Re: DA20-A1 or DA-20C1 - What should I choose?

Post by Steven »

I've owned both an A1 and a C1. They are both wonderful planes and you will be happy flying either one.

A1 Pros:
1. The most economical modern aircraft, by far
2. Constant speed prop makes you feel like you're flying a more sophisticated aircraft

C1 Pros:
1. Still in production and supported by Diamond (to the extent they actually support used aircraft)
2. Higher useful load
3. Better climb performance
4. Bigger resale market

If I were to do it again, I'd buy a C1.
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Re: DA20-A1 or DA-20C1 - What should I choose?

Post by Guest »

Thanks for all the replies.

I believe I have decided on the C1.

It is a 2001 with about 700hrs left TBO. No fancy avionics really at all, but nice interior and exterior. I know it's very subjective to the exact aircraft, but is there a range of price I should expect to offer on one of this vintage?

This would be my first aircraft and don't have a lot of pilot friends locally to assist me in valuation.

Any insight, even small would be very much appreciated!

Thank you!
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Re: DA20-A1 or DA-20C1 - What should I choose?

Post by Steven »

A reasonable range would be $60-80,000. If you're an AOPA member you can use their Vref valuation tool.
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Re: DA20-A1 or DA-20C1 - What should I choose?

Post by RMarkSampson »

I'm a C1 owner. It has been a great plane for me. Both the A1 and the C1 are inexpensive to operate (i.e. fuel). Maintenance will be the true test of how inexpensive (or expensive) either one of these will be to operate. The Diamond website has PDF files of the Aircraft Maintenance Manual and the Integrated Parts Catalog. Also, you will want to download the Continental "M6" maintenance manual for the IO-240B. You'll want to become familiar with these manuals. Besides the avionics in the panel, the value of your aircraft will be impacted by the maintenance history.

I've attached a spreadsheet I developed to support my annuals - I do owner-assisted maintenance which I have found to provide a higher level of care (because I get knee deep into the process). Of course it requires finding a A&P and IA that will work with you. Up front (i.e. before making an offer) you will want to inspect the logs and find which Diamond Service Bulletins and Continental Service Bulletins were conducted on your aircraft. Some do not apply and an owner can certainly decline some of them - but if the previous owner habitually declined all of them, especially the ones labeled "highly recommended", then you should use this fact to decrease the purchase price of the aircraft. I would not necessarily walk away, but I would not pay top dollar if the maintenance was not top-notch.

TBO is not a red-line, you can fly past TBO if you not operating it commercially. However, I would figure out the last time the magnetos were inspected and spend the $1000 it will take to do an "IRAN" on them if they are much past 500 hours. You should also press for a lower price if you need to do that up front. "Hey, your magnetos were not inspected at 500 hours so it is going to cost me $1000 up front to do that inspection - the price needs to come down to cover that." You will want to ensure the rudder cables were replaced at 10 years, or reduce the price some more. The electric fuel pump is another 10 year replacement - but you can also get it overhauled for less. The engine cowling paint is also prone to wear off - and you will want to determine if that cost will fall to you soon after your purchase. The Heat Exchanger is also something you will want inspected before purchasing.

Finally, a compression test is good, but it is also old-school. I would Borescope the engine to check valves and cylinder walls. You can actually buy a Borescope online from Amazon.com that does a fairly good job - it does not take a high-priced mechanic to visually inspect what you are buying. One last thing - every good owner periodically sends an oil sample off for analysis - ask to see the last test results (oil only, or also the oil filter). That will tell you a lot more about the health of your engine vice the "700 hours to TBO" (which really only impacts the value of the engine, not how long it can continue to operate without throwing $$'s at it).

Good luck - I've owned my 1999 DA20-C1 for over three years now - it was a great aircraft to buy, and I remain very satisfied with my purchase.
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