Prebuy Results

[DA40N00b]

Hi,
Would anyone be willing to give me their thoughts on the prebuy results/pictures linked below? The plane is a 2011 with around 500 hours.
Thanks!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2khshxtmah761 ... 6.pdf?dl=0

[Gearle]

Hello there,
I should create my own "6 month reflections on just having purchased a 2003 DA40" post but here are comments from having just gone through this myself. You don't want to be saying 'the next plane I buy will be perfect!'.
Many of the below things are not caught in a prebuy because they don't HAVE to inspect them.

1. Make sure the seller fixes or checks everything the prebuy recommends or says is overdue.
2. Have an independant avionics mechanic check the radios, G1000, gyros and all the headset jacks. My gyro was bad and the prebuy didn't catch it because (1) they don't fly the plane during checkout and (2) they didn't seem to know what bad looked like. The HSI turning isn't sufficient proof. It has to track accurately. An airplane mechanic often isn't knowledgable enough on accurate avionics behavior. Make sure all the recent software updates are installed on the garmin according to GARMIN.
3. Make sure they pay for a current annual.
4. Those chips on the leading edge of the wing must definitely be checked and signed off by a AP mechanic. I'd also send photographs to Diamond support (extremely helpful and nice people). Make sure the whole area doesn't need to be torn down and relaid with new GRFP. Some may just cover it with white appliance paint. That shiny metal in the hole is the lightening protection mesh...
5. Wash the plane and make sure no water gets into the cabin (bad door seals).
6. Check all the overhead reading lights.
7. Check all the instrument lights, the instrument cowel canopy light.
8. Make sure the compass card is present and up to date.
9. Make sure you have the airworthiness certificate.
10. Make sure EVERY lightening strap is attached and not broken in half. look especially at the straps attached to the ailerons and the flaps since they're constantly being flexed.
11. Make sure all the rain weeping points are not clogged. There are dozens of them.
12. Make sure the wet compass and heading indicator accurately match each other and earth's magnetic north.
13. Inspect tarnishing and rust on engine parts and bolts everywhere
14. I'd make them change the spark plugs.
15. They probably won't paint the 'hanger rash', but you can always ask. The non-safety related rash to me is on the wheel pants and the front fork--not the wings.
16. Have an oil analysis done on their expense.
17. Make sure all the vents open and close and move around.
18. Inspect UNDER the carpets front and back.
19. Inspect under the rear seat.

Well that's it. You can wonder why I've said all these things...

Regards

[krellis]

I am no expert, but my quick take is that airplane has way more than 500 hours. We just sold ours of about the same vintage and time and it looked pristine. This plane looks pretty rough to me. I'm sure most of those issues are repairable but I wasn't impressed personally. Maybe my standards are too high but judging by the pictures alone, I would pass.

I've attached some pages from the brochure that Premier created when selling our airplane. You can use the pictures for comparison. Our airplane had a little more than 600 hours.

Krea Ellis
DA20-A1
DA40-XLS Sold

[Tommy]

If that's a true 500 hrs., that plane is beat. Somebody put some really hard miles on it.
Doesn't look like it ever saw a hangar.
Many of the items on your list are basic annual things that should be taken care of on a regular basis.
I wouldn't hit a dog in the ass with that plane.

[Lance Murray]

In response to Gearle's post. Realize that you are buying a used airplane and paying a used price. Thats a nice list of items that you may like but you should expect to pay accordingly. I suspect if you held to that list you will never buy a used airplane. These are all good things to pay attention to but expecting your used airplane to be in perfect and new condition is a bit much.

[Lance Murray]

As far as the pre-buy check list is concerned. I don't see anything that should be a red flag. This is all cosmetic that cleans up very easily. A little paint work and interior work and this will look new again. This is the kind of airplane that I would buy, clean up and sell for a profit.

[Antoine]

Mixed feelings here. From the condition of this plane, there is no reason to believe that the previous owner took good care of the engine. If he managed to ruin cosmetics to this extent, then he probably did not care about his plane in general...
I would only buy it if very cheap, with a potential engine problem built into the budget. The good thing is that such ugly planes scare buyers off, so your low ball offer could well be the only one they got.
Fixing cosmetics on a composite plane is a "pro" job, but it can be done. Just budget accordingly unless you are as good as Lance at this.

[Lance Murray]

On the other hand maybe he just flew a lot and often and that is very good for these airplanes.

Yes it was likely an outdoor airplane depending on the location depending on the location that may not be a big deal. Take a good look at the forward inboard wing area near the three exposed screws. Look for composite delaminating or bubbles around the screws. This is a standard problematic area for ALL DA40's hangared or not as it was a bad design. Carbon is bonded to metal in this area with a direct path for an electrolyte to cause galvanic corrosion of the metal strip beneath. This is a failure in Diamond's engineering department and not a problem with maintenance of the airplane. Again this is not a big deal but will have to be repaired eventually by a professional that knows how to work with Carbon and heat curing. Budget a few AMU's for that.

I love to find ugly airplanes like this because many people at this entry level are afraid of these uncared for airplanes. Of course pay accordingly. It will shine up like new.

The other things I would look at are the Powerflow exhaust. Take it apart and make sure that the slip joints aren't fused. If the annual maintenance was not done in this area it will fuse. A new collector cost me a couple AMU's I think.

If the interior is damaged beyond basic clean up (you can easily dye the seats to look new) there is a guy advertising on eBay that does an AWESOME job with leather and making your interior to look like an exotic bespoke Astin Martin. He charges around 6K. I would say for less than 10K you can make this thing look far better than when it was factory new inside and out.

Throw a realistic offer at this that leaves room for 10K worth of cosmetics and any major repairs you find that need to be done. The prop can be field repaired easily. If you need a complete overhaul budget around 6K for that. Others may give you a more accurate number but unless it is leaking there should not be a need. Epoxy the damaged area and you should be good.

So my thoughts: think of what you think a good deal on a nice airplane would be. Drop that price by 20K for cosmetics and minor repair. Make sure the engine is good (I would prefer that the engine was in need of a major overhaul so I can price in a remanufactured one). Buy the airplane, get to work and have something nicer than the standard airplane and it is customized to your liking. Love it and leave it. Make a couple dollars profit and buy Antoine's Extra 400 when he is done with it.

Antoine I LOVE that airplane and I'm envious.

[Antoine]

Hey Lance - I am the one to be jealous:
My Extra needs a lot of work before it shines, and it is costing me a lot of AMU's (let me guess? Aviation Measurement Units?) What YOU can do yourself, I have to pay someone to do for me...
I dont want to 7500 this thread. Will post my plans for the E400 on the other thread.

But that's quite a compliment, coming from you...

[krellis]

If you had told me that airplane had 5000 hours, not 500, I would have been more inclined to believe it. My DA20 that has close to 4000 hours and sat outside for most of it's life before we purchased it - looks way better than this one. I think this airplane is likely to be a maintenance nightmare. I wouldn't buy it with someone else's money. Obviously, just my opinion.

Krea Ellis