2002 DA-40 Question

[Gary]

The DA40 cabin can be a little cramped as it seems it was designed for skinny Europeans and many of us the U.S. are on the large side. It has great curb appeal. It looks like it belongs even when parked near jets at the FBO. It's just a fun airplane to fly. There is always something out there that is faster and can carry more load but the DA40 works for me just fine.

[Guest]

There was some minor damage to the right aileron, right wing tip fairing and empenage strike plate due to a hard landing. If anyone has any advice/suggestions on this issue as well, I would appreciate it.

Any value deduction for this?

Thanks.
Bill

[johnu]

I have an older DA40 serial 68. It had steam gauges and a KLN94 GPS. I upgraded the cockpit with 3 Aspen Displays, and EI-MVP50- engine instruments and a GNS 430. I just replaced the engine as well. I am just getting ready to put in ADS-B as well.
Love the airplane but as mentioned before it is a slower than the new versions which is a bit frustrating.

I really did not like the engine instrument package on the original airplane so I got rid of it. The MVP50 is really good for leaning and squeezing speed out of the airplane. Also, my POH says to run at 2400RPM while later models specify 2450. I have been flying at 2450 RPM with good low CHT and EGT's and it actually makes a difference a few knots.

The Aspen package is great with weather and synthetic vision. I fly a lot in the mountains and synthetic vision is a big deal. I would recommend updating to glass just for that reason alone. With ADS-B traffic and weather with ADS-B in, it really improves the safety of flying. Integrating the GNS430 with the GPS and GPS steering is really a game changer for flying in any IMC.

The airplane is really fun to fly and as you might imagine I strongly recommend it. The useful load is a limitation and as people mentioned it is not a 4 person aircraft especially from high altitudes and warm summer days! With some reasonable upgrades to the cockpit you have a modern aircraft that is as capable as a new airplane. Judging on the date of this original post you probably already made a decision, but if not the DA40 is great. Good Luck.

[Guest]

John,

Did you have any issues with approval in changing out the engine displays? Whenever I mention this to my Avionics guy he seems to think that getting approval would be a huge challenge. I also have a steam gage Diamond with the Aspen EFD1000 pro with Hazard Awareness and Synthetic Vision. I love it. As far as Useful load is concerned take a look at the weight and balance of my airplane in the WIKI. You can add 110lbs to your MTOW fairly easily. As far as speed I get 140kts on average at 6000' and sometimes 145kts on a good day. This is with the larger wheels, two blade Hartzell and the older standard exhaust. I added the NLG leg fairing and I think this gave me 5kts.

I sure wish Aspen made an engine monitor. Hint hint.

I have an older DA40 serial 68. It had steam gauges and a KLN94 GPS. I upgraded the cockpit with 3 Aspen Displays, and EI-MVP50- engine instruments and a GNS 430. I just replaced the engine as well. I am just getting ready to put in ADS-B as well.
Love the airplane but as mentioned before it is a slower than the new versions which is a bit frustrating.

I really did not like the engine instrument package on the original airplane so I got rid of it. The MVP50 is really good for leaning and squeezing speed out of the airplane. Also, my POH says to run at 2400RPM while later models specify 2450. I have been flying at 2450 RPM with good low CHT and EGT's and it actually makes a difference a few knots.

The Aspen package is great with weather and synthetic vision. I fly a lot in the mountains and synthetic vision is a big deal. I would recommend updating to glass just for that reason alone. With ADS-B traffic and weather with ADS-B in, it really improves the safety of flying. Integrating the GNS430 with the GPS and GPS steering is really a game changer for flying in any IMC.

The airplane is really fun to fly and as you might imagine I strongly recommend it. The useful load is a limitation and as people mentioned it is not a 4 person aircraft especially from high altitudes and warm summer days! With some reasonable upgrades to the cockpit you have a modern aircraft that is as capable as a new airplane. Judging on the date of this original post you probably already made a decision, but if not the DA40 is great. Good Luck.

[Guest]

There was some minor damage to the right aileron, right wing tip fairing and empenage strike plate due to a hard landing. If anyone has any advice/suggestions on this issue as well, I would appreciate it.

Any value deduction for this?

Thanks.
Bill

Minor damage to the aileron ? If the aileron was damaged then the wing tip must have taken some serious hit! I would take a hard look at the repair report and remove the wingtip (a few screws to check that the flange on the wing side is unhurt.
I would definitely consider this as significant damage and negotiate accordingly. Did they do a hard landing inspection? It should be in the books.

About the PA28 to DA40 comparison. I have flown both and while there is no question the Piper can carry more, what about the reasons?
When the PA28 was designed the 26g crashworthiness requirement did not exist. If you look at pictures of crashed PA28's you'll see them trashed all over the place. I have seen pics of DA40 cabins, largely intact, with everything else ripped off...
The PA28 also has wet wings (yikes!) and basically all of the features of an old metal airplane including a single egress point that can easily get stuck in case of crash with you inside being roasted.

It is simply another league and while I am the first to bitch at DAI for the excess weight, I think we owe them some fairness here. This airplane is a flying fortress... and such fun to fly on top of that!
The original poster has obviously already decided for a DA40 and I encourage him to keep it this way!

[johnu]

I did not have any issues at all with the installation of the EI MVP50. They have it listed on their AML STC and I literally went to the dealer and had them install it. It went very smooth. I had them do it when I changed the engine. If you need info on the specifics I can hook your dealer up with the one I did mine with. I originally went for the JPI but the DA40 is not listed on their AML STC. The change has made a world of difference for managing my new engine. It also records data in a great format that can be sent to Saavy as well for analysis.

We have been looking at engine instruments for a long time. Unfortunately every time we look at the demand it is limited in the fixed wing market. Lot of people say they want it they just don't want to pay for it We are getting a lot of interest from the helicopter market though and I expect you will see it their first.

Glad you like you Aspen. The syn vis is an incredible asset to flying. When you get ready to think about ADS-B let me know. I can at least give you a lot of options.

I will take a look at your W&B. 110lbs is a big deal! I typically fly at or above 9,500 and best I can do is around 130. At 11,500 I get 125-130. At lower altitudes I don't think I have ever seen 140 or above! I thought about the NLG fairing but never thought it would do that much. If it adds 5 knots, I am going for it!!!



[quote="Guest"]John,

Did you have any issues with approval in changing out the engine displays? Whenever I mention this to my Avionics guy he seems to think that getting approval would be a huge challenge. I also have a steam gage Diamond with the Aspen EFD1000 pro with Hazard Awareness and Synthetic Vision. I love it. As far as Useful load is concerned take a look at the weight and balance of my airplane in the WIKI. You can add 110lbs to your MTOW fairly easily. As far as speed I get 140kts on average at 6000' and sometimes 145kts on a good day. This is with the larger wheels, two blade Hartzell and the older standard exhaust. I added the NLG leg fairing and I think this gave me 5kts.

I sure wish Aspen made an engine monitor. Hint hint.

[johnu]

One more question. I looked for the NLG fairing SB on the diamond site and couldn't find it. Can you tell me what SB you had it put on?

Thanks

[rwtucker]

I agree with all points on the aileron damage. That is a major consideration and it should affect the price and maybe even the purchase for two reasons: the fact that a composite airfoil took a very hard hit and the fact that there may be hard to detect damage to the MLG strut attachment point.

On the PA28. I pretty much agree with the negative points but would add a few more considerations. I trained on the Warrior, am joint owner of a Hershey bar 180 with my son, and own the Lexus version (201T). I absolutely love the way my 201T flies, the comfort, roominess, ceiling, and speed (I get close to 160 kts on 12.5-13 gph). When it comes to payload, we Diamond owners can only be envious. Most Cherokees are seriously underrated on POH values. I have half again the payload of a DA40 (more than that if I fly with 50 gallons, which is all I need before I need a break). I know a guy who hauls freight in the back-country who leaps of the ground at high DA grass strips with a load that no one will mention publicly. In fact, one of the weaknesses of the newer PA28 wing designs is that they have to be loaded to get the damn thing on the ground smoothly (unless you point the nose at the stars and settle for a tail dragger's view of the runway). It will float down the entire runway of you are light and carry even 2-3 kts extra speed.

All of this said, the DA40 is an even safer and much more modern design. I love the view and the G1000. For me, the seats are very comfortable on the long flights (some people don't like them). On the other hand, the DA40 is crowded in the cockpit. If you have a big guy in the right seat, you have to push him over to access the trim wheel and he may not he able to keep his feet off the rudder pedals. Even the cup holder was not designed with US products in mind and accessible storage is so minimal as to be frustrating.

I have made an equal number of trips from McCall to Phoenix in the 201T and the DA40. My passengers prefer the 201T. I prefer the DA40. If I lost an engine, I would also prefer the DA40.

[Lance Murray]

Hi John, sorry about the delay. The NLG SB was installed IAW OPTIONAL SERVICE BULLETIN NO. OSB 40-016/3
NO. OSB F4-002. The one issue you may have is that the early NLG strut does not have the mounting holes for the fairing. Unless you have upgraded the strut you may need a DER to approve adding the holes. It is just two small holes but since it is on a structural part your mechanic may want it. My strut was upgraded to remove the repeat inspection AD and the new struts come pre-drilled.

[quote="johnu"]One more question. I looked for the NLG fairing SB on the diamond site and couldn't find it. Can you tell me what SB you had it put on?

[Rich]

Most Cherokees are seriously underrated on POH values.

I have to take issue with this. The older low-power hershey-bar, non-turbocharged PA28's are NOT to be flown at high DA's at or near gross weight, unless you are prepared to use your superior skill to overcome your lack of judgement. Drag rise at increasing angles of attack is VERY steep. For example, I once departed Colorado Springs on a summer day in my 150-HP PA28 at gross weight. About the time I turned crosswind, the best ROC I could nurse was about 50 FPM and that vanished with the slightest downdraft. It was all I could do to nurse the plane back to the airport.

I offloaded 200 pounds and then departed successfully. Still sluggish, but was then able to fly on back to Idaho Falls.

That plane was destroyed when a friend of mine got behind the power curve on takeoff close to gross weight and pancaked it in off the runway at Erie, CO airpark. No serious injuries, thankfully. This airplane had take-off charts that ended at 7000 ft DA with the note that extrapolation about 7000 ft. was not valid.

Then there was that mountain check ride I was on with an instructor in a PA28R (aka Arrow). I don't recall if it was a 180 or 200 HP. With 3 of us aboard an probably half a load of fuel left, we barely were able to clear the top of Vail Pass after passing over Vail at 9,000 ft. We're talking whites-of-the-eyes of the folks at the scenic overlook and, at times being dead even with the elevation of the highway alongside us. This was an October morning after passage of a cold front. No wind. Snow on the ground at Leadville and Aspen. Very leisurely climb out of both airports.

And yes, since all involved were well-experienced high DA fliers, proper leaning and airspeed management was always used.