Diamond DA40 Star 180 Wing Crack Issue
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
Diamond DA40 Star 180 Wing Crack Issue
Hello there gents;
I have been in the market for a DA40 180 Star for some time now;
i wasn't looking for something to fancy as i am just embarking on my journey of becoming a pilot with just over 20 hours;
I wanted the G1000, Autopilot, and a Low hour Air-frame as i was planning on keeping the plane for a long time;
- The first DA40 was a 2005 with just under 600 hours TTAF, i was so happy as i agreed with the owner to close at 145k USD pending inspection ... i was so disappointed when i found out the plane had a crack in the wing
i sent the pictures to a few Diamond certified repair centers, some of them told me that it was just cosmetic, others said they had to further examine and X-Ray it to determine there is no underlying structural damage, since the aircraft was located in Canada and would be difficult to further inspect, i let the plane go and continue my search for an intact Air-frame;
- The second DA40 was also a 2005 with just over 2000 hours, due on overhaul but the seller agreed to let it go for about 120k and has an Intact air-frame (or so he said)
After driving 5 hours to the location and looking at the wing i see this crack on the trailing edge !
The seller offered to "fix" the cracks by remolding it but the question is will that solve the problem ??
that just shook my heart out, i was absolutely in love with the plane and knew it was just what i wanted on every level from safety to economy, reliability, efficiency ...
Everyone at Flight school was advising me against buying a composite air-frame and that it will only develop more cracks in the future, some even said the early model DA40's where poorly fabricated; I was determined to prove them wrong but with the second DA40 i inspect having a crack on the wing, that's gonna be hard !!
So my Question to DA40 owners, have you had such cracks develop on your air-frame ?? and most important, are they dangerous ? will they cause structural damage in the future ? or are they just cosmetic cracks in the molding like i was told ??
Please someone clear this out for me as i am really confused and not so sure i want an airplane with a cracked wing, this is my first airplane after all ...
I have been in the market for a DA40 180 Star for some time now;
i wasn't looking for something to fancy as i am just embarking on my journey of becoming a pilot with just over 20 hours;
I wanted the G1000, Autopilot, and a Low hour Air-frame as i was planning on keeping the plane for a long time;
- The first DA40 was a 2005 with just under 600 hours TTAF, i was so happy as i agreed with the owner to close at 145k USD pending inspection ... i was so disappointed when i found out the plane had a crack in the wing
i sent the pictures to a few Diamond certified repair centers, some of them told me that it was just cosmetic, others said they had to further examine and X-Ray it to determine there is no underlying structural damage, since the aircraft was located in Canada and would be difficult to further inspect, i let the plane go and continue my search for an intact Air-frame;
- The second DA40 was also a 2005 with just over 2000 hours, due on overhaul but the seller agreed to let it go for about 120k and has an Intact air-frame (or so he said)
After driving 5 hours to the location and looking at the wing i see this crack on the trailing edge !
The seller offered to "fix" the cracks by remolding it but the question is will that solve the problem ??
that just shook my heart out, i was absolutely in love with the plane and knew it was just what i wanted on every level from safety to economy, reliability, efficiency ...
Everyone at Flight school was advising me against buying a composite air-frame and that it will only develop more cracks in the future, some even said the early model DA40's where poorly fabricated; I was determined to prove them wrong but with the second DA40 i inspect having a crack on the wing, that's gonna be hard !!
So my Question to DA40 owners, have you had such cracks develop on your air-frame ?? and most important, are they dangerous ? will they cause structural damage in the future ? or are they just cosmetic cracks in the molding like i was told ??
Please someone clear this out for me as i am really confused and not so sure i want an airplane with a cracked wing, this is my first airplane after all ...
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Re: Diamond DA40 Star 180 Wing Crack Issue
You should not be worried about buying a composite aircraft made by Diamond.
While I regularly bitch about Diamond Aircraft, it is a well known fact that they have very advanced manufacturing and quality control of their composite processes.
Ask someone who visited the factories.
Their manufacturing history started way before the DA40 was launched and I have never heard about quality issues in early model years.
There are two sorts of cracks - superficial (cosmetic) or structural (caused by delamination or fiber ruptures). The latter is very rare.
The first plane you did not buy had a crack that I would imagine was caused by impact. The leading edge of the wing is made of thin and hollow carbon fiber. Bird strike or hangar rash?
The second plane has a crack in a bonding area where there must be some amount of non-structural material (filler).
A good composites specialist will help you out in deciding how bad this is (my guess is: no big deal, but I am NOT an expert).
Buying a plane should be a non-emotional act. Be rational and pay for professional advice. This is well spent money. And keep in mind there are FAR more planes out there than potential buyers. Take your time!
Safe flights
While I regularly bitch about Diamond Aircraft, it is a well known fact that they have very advanced manufacturing and quality control of their composite processes.
Ask someone who visited the factories.
Their manufacturing history started way before the DA40 was launched and I have never heard about quality issues in early model years.
There are two sorts of cracks - superficial (cosmetic) or structural (caused by delamination or fiber ruptures). The latter is very rare.
The first plane you did not buy had a crack that I would imagine was caused by impact. The leading edge of the wing is made of thin and hollow carbon fiber. Bird strike or hangar rash?
The second plane has a crack in a bonding area where there must be some amount of non-structural material (filler).
A good composites specialist will help you out in deciding how bad this is (my guess is: no big deal, but I am NOT an expert).
Buying a plane should be a non-emotional act. Be rational and pay for professional advice. This is well spent money. And keep in mind there are FAR more planes out there than potential buyers. Take your time!
Safe flights
- Steve
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Re: Diamond DA40 Star 180 Wing Crack Issue
The crack on the second airframe is in a common location. It is cosmetic. Mine has had one there (also on the left wing only) for 12 years with no progression. When I first discovered it, I sent photos to the Diamond engineers. They said not to repair, it wouldn't cause problems.
They were right.
Steve
They were right.
Steve
- Lance Murray
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Re: Diamond DA40 Star 180 Wing Crack Issue
The crack you are looking at is very common and is superficial. This is NOT structural. Disregard the advice for an X-ray inspection. It is in the body filler surface only. This is nothing more than cosmetic. Forget the Ney sayers. You will not find a better more versatile airframe for the money. Diamonds are a delight to fly and are very low cost to maintain. This crack in this location is common and easily fixed. There are no other cracks that are common in this airplane.
Every new designed aircraft in the market is and will be composite. Aluminum airframes will go the way of fabric covered aircraft. They are a figment of the past.
Oh, and that first crack was not caused by impact as someone advised. Both airplanes seem to have a crack at the wing root in the body filler. This is just an area that has a little flex/expansion/contraction that is causing the crack. No big deal. I would go back and make another offer on these airplanes.
Every new designed aircraft in the market is and will be composite. Aluminum airframes will go the way of fabric covered aircraft. They are a figment of the past.
Oh, and that first crack was not caused by impact as someone advised. Both airplanes seem to have a crack at the wing root in the body filler. This is just an area that has a little flex/expansion/contraction that is causing the crack. No big deal. I would go back and make another offer on these airplanes.
Last edited by Lance Murray on Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Diamond DA40 Star 180 Wing Crack Issue
aviator 216; your assumptions and initial information you are getting from your flight school are seriously flawed. Diamond aircraft is, are some of the most stout aircraft you will ever see. If able, one visit to the factory will convince you of that. Don't talk to people that don't have a clue as to what they are talking about.
Don't listen to me if you don't want to, however, I would listen to the two previous posters here. They know what they are talking about. Again, if you can, take a trip to the factory. All doubt regarding Diamond's structural integrity will be permanently erased from your mind.
Everything you see on both planes you are looking at is cosmetic.
Don't listen to me if you don't want to, however, I would listen to the two previous posters here. They know what they are talking about. Again, if you can, take a trip to the factory. All doubt regarding Diamond's structural integrity will be permanently erased from your mind.
Everything you see on both planes you are looking at is cosmetic.
- Thomas
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Re: Diamond DA40 Star 180 Wing Crack Issue
I fully agree with the previous statements. These cracks are not nice, but only cosmetically. The wing root crack is a quite common case, the leading edge one definitely not.
I do have an (EASA) A&P licence (SEP up to B747) with 40 years of experience, worked also on gliders, from birth of the composite types from the early 70’s on. I was a FFA Diamant 16.5 glider owner for 20 years (MFD in 1969 - not by Diamond Austria) and up to the modern DG gliders. There are statements about the Diamonds, especially concerning lousy customer support, but the composite DA20/40/42 airframe is a masterpiece, both, in view of quality, durability and safety, yes, an icon in this segment of aircraft. Well is it`s not only a Diamonds Aircraft’s success story, they developed the types from the Hoffmann HK36 Motor glider, a German construction. (For clarification; I am a Swiss native).
I do have an (EASA) A&P licence (SEP up to B747) with 40 years of experience, worked also on gliders, from birth of the composite types from the early 70’s on. I was a FFA Diamant 16.5 glider owner for 20 years (MFD in 1969 - not by Diamond Austria) and up to the modern DG gliders. There are statements about the Diamonds, especially concerning lousy customer support, but the composite DA20/40/42 airframe is a masterpiece, both, in view of quality, durability and safety, yes, an icon in this segment of aircraft. Well is it`s not only a Diamonds Aircraft’s success story, they developed the types from the Hoffmann HK36 Motor glider, a German construction. (For clarification; I am a Swiss native).
Thomas Bienz DA40-180 40.337 D-ENMA (sold 08/2022)
Home Airport LSZC Buochs Switzerland
Home Airport LSZC Buochs Switzerland
- Charbie
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Re: Diamond DA40 Star 180 Wing Crack Issue
The local certified diamond composite repair facility , near the plant in London Ontario is called XU Aviation. If you still have questions about the cracks after all the input, contact them and satisfy yourself. They have an excellent reputation and my service center uses them exclusively for any composite repairs, usually caused by impacting hangar doors or other planes while moving them around.
2007 DA40 XL , CZBA, Burlington, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Diamond DA40 Star 180 Wing Crack Issue
I've been to the factory. I have flown my wife and two little boys (starting when they were 9 and 7) around in the plane with total confidence in the airframe. I knew that in the possible accident chain it was not the composite construction I had to worry about, but my skills as an aviator.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
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- rwtucker
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Re: Diamond DA40 Star 180 Wing Crack Issue
I'll second (or third) that. I bought my XLS at the factory and flew it back to the west coast. I have never been in such an impressive construction environment as the London factory. Small teams working carefully and quietly on a single installation component. A composite room where I saw spars being painstakingly constructed, layer by layer . . . all by hand (with jigs) with constant checks on progress. An avionics wiring shop that continues to win awards for design and neatness. I also got to sit in the second D-Jet prototype and talk with the chief engineer as a new rudder pedal design was being installed. The carcass of version 1.0 was sitting in a hallway waiting to be taken to the dump.Colin wrote:I've been to the factory. . . I knew that in the possible accident chain it was not the composite construction I had to worry about, but my skills as an aviator.
All of this said, there is nothing structural (deep sense) near either of the cracks that you saw. However, I am surprised to see them. My XLS has no cracks and I've triggered the "Sink Rate" warning many times in tight high mountain landings, so much so that I heard the groaning sound some of you have no doubt heard on a deep descent to a short runway with mountains on three sides.
My recommendation would be to pick the best aircraft based on all the factors and set a price based on these minor cosmetic repairs. Other DAN members can probably tell you what these repairs would cost.