VFR/IFR Visalia to San Carlos for Cocoa Bean (PnP)
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- waynemcc999
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VFR/IFR Visalia to San Carlos for Cocoa Bean (PnP)
Today we’re helping to relocate Cocoa Bean, a darling young husky mix, to her forever home in the Bay Area. And once again we’ll see if I can correctly copy and read back the clearance out of San Carlos (?!). If you’re looking to fly for a cause, PilotsNPaws can be a gratifying answer. Thanks for flying with us. Wayne, GeezerGeek Pilot
Wayne McClelland
PPL/IR, 2008 Diamond Star DA40-XLS 40.922, KSBA
Photo logs of PilotsNPaws | Flying Doctors | Angel Flight | YouTube @GeezerGeekPilot
PPL/IR, 2008 Diamond Star DA40-XLS 40.922, KSBA
Photo logs of PilotsNPaws | Flying Doctors | Angel Flight | YouTube @GeezerGeekPilot
- waynemcc999
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Re: VFR/IFR Visalia to San Carlos for Cocoa Bean (PnP)
Just a quick add-on to the video at the top of this thread… The departure clearance from San Carlos presents a pretty well-known challenge for many of us. Here are my latest two – still unsuccessful – tries. Thanks for flying with us. Wayne, GeezerGeek Pilot
Wayne McClelland
PPL/IR, 2008 Diamond Star DA40-XLS 40.922, KSBA
Photo logs of PilotsNPaws | Flying Doctors | Angel Flight | YouTube @GeezerGeekPilot
PPL/IR, 2008 Diamond Star DA40-XLS 40.922, KSBA
Photo logs of PilotsNPaws | Flying Doctors | Angel Flight | YouTube @GeezerGeekPilot
- Rich
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Re: VFR/IFR Visalia to San Carlos for Cocoa Bean (PnP)
I hate getting clearances with all those ingredients. I'm gratified to see your handwriting looks like mine Sister Mary Wup-ass didn't help.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- waynemcc999
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Re: VFR/IFR Visalia to San Carlos for Cocoa Bean (PnP)
Rich, agreed... I guess too many rulers impacting the knuckles did it, plus in my case, a lack of patience for penmanship.
Thanks for watching!
Wayne
Wayne McClelland
PPL/IR, 2008 Diamond Star DA40-XLS 40.922, KSBA
Photo logs of PilotsNPaws | Flying Doctors | Angel Flight | YouTube @GeezerGeekPilot
PPL/IR, 2008 Diamond Star DA40-XLS 40.922, KSBA
Photo logs of PilotsNPaws | Flying Doctors | Angel Flight | YouTube @GeezerGeekPilot
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Re: VFR/IFR Visalia to San Carlos for Cocoa Bean (PnP)
I did my primary there, and some instrument training. It's a crazy clearance, but always the same. The San Carlos Airport website has the clearance (i.e., you can copy it now), and a letter from NORCAL saying you don't need to do a complete read back. The letter expired two weeks ago, but perhaps they have not updated the website.
Worth asking if a full readback is required.
Worth asking if a full readback is required.
- midlifeflyer
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Re: VFR/IFR Visalia to San Carlos for Cocoa Bean (PnP)
FIFY.
That letter is funny. I like the part saying the only readback required for an IFR route clearance is "Wilco." I may try that some day and see how far I get.
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Re: VFR/IFR Visalia to San Carlos for Cocoa Bean (PnP)
My bad, yes it expired last year.midlifeflyer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:09 pmThat letter is funny. I like the part saying the only readback required for an IFR route clearance is "Wilco." I may try that some day and see how far I get.
I sent the airport some questions, including whether or not the FAA was considering creating a SID.
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Re: VFR/IFR Visalia to San Carlos for Cocoa Bean (PnP)
Wayne, welcome to the SF Bay Area. This is another great video!
IFR dep from SQL sounds very intimidating probably that's the last thing I want to do...
I didn't know about Russ' pro-tip though!
IFR dep from SQL sounds very intimidating probably that's the last thing I want to do...
I didn't know about Russ' pro-tip though!
- Boatguy
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Re: VFR/IFR Visalia to San Carlos for Cocoa Bean (PnP)
I received a prompt response from the San Carlos Airport:
1) Is the departure clearance always the same, irrespective of direction of flight after departure?
RESPONSE: No. The VFR-to-IFR “canned” clearance is only issued for departures from Rwy 30. And that clearance is always identical from my experience.
2) Has the FAA considered creating a SID?
RESPONSE: Yes, and we pushed hard on this. But because of TERPS (I can’t immediately cite the subsection), such publication is not permitted (purportedly due to conflict with SFO arrivals). Instead it must be verbally issues. OPINION: most of us have found this underwhelming — but we’ve researched sufficiently to determine that it is in fact accurate.
3) The letter from NORCAL ATC has expired. Have those instructions been renewed. Many pilots find it surprising that no readback is required.
RESPONSE: The “read back” requirement is directly presented in the AIM — permitting the pilot to acknowledge the clearance if he/she can comply. I personally find it helpful to at least read back my issued squawk code. Of course, non-compliance risk remains on the pilot who does not read it back in full. But as a practical matter, most SQL-based pilots have full familiarity with the clearance and the additional read backs clog the frequency and thus do not help overall safety.
Also, LOAs issued to 135 carriers can (and have) allowed abbreviated read back (identical to a normal clearance with a SID).
You may have obtained a copy of the San Carlos Airport Assn’s brochure on this departure clearance. It is available on the SCAPA website as well as at the Airport Terminal Office and their website.
1) Is the departure clearance always the same, irrespective of direction of flight after departure?
RESPONSE: No. The VFR-to-IFR “canned” clearance is only issued for departures from Rwy 30. And that clearance is always identical from my experience.
2) Has the FAA considered creating a SID?
RESPONSE: Yes, and we pushed hard on this. But because of TERPS (I can’t immediately cite the subsection), such publication is not permitted (purportedly due to conflict with SFO arrivals). Instead it must be verbally issues. OPINION: most of us have found this underwhelming — but we’ve researched sufficiently to determine that it is in fact accurate.
3) The letter from NORCAL ATC has expired. Have those instructions been renewed. Many pilots find it surprising that no readback is required.
RESPONSE: The “read back” requirement is directly presented in the AIM — permitting the pilot to acknowledge the clearance if he/she can comply. I personally find it helpful to at least read back my issued squawk code. Of course, non-compliance risk remains on the pilot who does not read it back in full. But as a practical matter, most SQL-based pilots have full familiarity with the clearance and the additional read backs clog the frequency and thus do not help overall safety.
Also, LOAs issued to 135 carriers can (and have) allowed abbreviated read back (identical to a normal clearance with a SID).
You may have obtained a copy of the San Carlos Airport Assn’s brochure on this departure clearance. It is available on the SCAPA website as well as at the Airport Terminal Office and their website.
- waynemcc999
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Re: VFR/IFR Visalia to San Carlos for Cocoa Bean (PnP)
Tosh, thanks for checking out the video, and for the kind words. Flying that VFR-to-IFR departure is not difficult... copying it down and reading it back (without saying "Oceanside" instead of "Woodside" which I've done several times) is -- unless we can indeed readback simply "familiar with the VFR-to-IFR departure".
Wayne McClelland
PPL/IR, 2008 Diamond Star DA40-XLS 40.922, KSBA
Photo logs of PilotsNPaws | Flying Doctors | Angel Flight | YouTube @GeezerGeekPilot
PPL/IR, 2008 Diamond Star DA40-XLS 40.922, KSBA
Photo logs of PilotsNPaws | Flying Doctors | Angel Flight | YouTube @GeezerGeekPilot