IFR Currency for Levi - KMRY KWVI (Part 1)

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waynemcc999
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IFR Currency for Levi - KMRY KWVI (Part 1)

Post by waynemcc999 »


A nice IFR currency outing with my good friend Levi in his C182/G. We shoot the RNAV 28L with LP minimums at Monterey and an LPV (breaking off for a circle-to-land) at Watsonville. In-flight discussions of Load vs Activate Approach, vertical guidance vs advisory-only vertical guidance, and legacy GPSS autopilots. Have you ever been on an IFR flight plan, informed ATC of your intent to “go missed”, and gotten “unable”? What are your experiences flying an LP or LPV approach with a legacy GPSS autopilot when there are major lateral course changes in the approach? Do you enjoy being safety pilot (I do)?
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Re: IFR Currency for Levi - KMRY KWVI (Part 1)

Post by Rich »

I have a pretty good example of a significant course change with the LP approach to Rwy 28 at S39 (40 degrees) and LPV RWY 16 (70 degrees). No problem with the KAP 140 BUT the nature of integrations with the GNS 530 W requires that you manually acknowledge the transition from NAV to APPROACH mode on the 140. A single button push does the trick. It will fly the vertical guidance whenever it is presented, be it advisory or not. Thus my LP approaches become LP+V and down we go.

I can see cases where the published missed approach might not be approved by ATC in practice scenarios. Gobs of approaches around here use the single VOR (DSD) within 100 miles as the MAP fix and at scarily similar altitudes. Many published missed approaches are not well thought out with respect to potential traffic conflicts.
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Re: IFR Currency for Levi - KMRY KWVI (Part 1)

Post by waynemcc999 »

Rich wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:26 am I have a pretty good example of a significant course change with the LP approach to Rwy 28 at S39 (40 degrees) and LPV RWY 16 (70 degrees). No problem with the KAP 140 BUT the nature of integrations with the GNS 530 W requires that you manually acknowledge the transition from NAV to APPROACH mode on the 140. A single button push does the trick. It will fly the vertical guidance whenever it is presented, be it advisory or not. Thus my LP approaches become LP+V and down we go.
In the case on this video, the GTN 650 no doubt has solid data for the RNAV 28L LP into KMRY... but the Century 2000 and a special Century add-on head for GPS-Steering simply hunted a good +/- 30 of course... Levi had to resort to HDG mode to get her back on course. On the LPV into KWVI he didn't enable the GPSS/NAV until aligned with the final approach course and all worked much better. Rich, thx for your good examples and the 530W/KAP trick.
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Re: IFR Currency for Levi - KMRY KWVI (Part 1)

Post by waynemcc999 »

Rich wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:26 am I can see cases where the published missed approach might not be approved by ATC in practice scenarios. Gobs of approaches around here use the single VOR (DSD) within 100 miles as the MAP fix and at scarily similar altitudes. Many published missed approaches are not well thought out with respect to potential traffic conflicts.
Rich, what I found interesting here is that we were on an IFR flight plan and cleared for the approach into KMRY, without any instructions about a non-published missed. As a courtesy I informed NorCal that we intended to go missed (to get to the patio restaurant at KWVI :-)... but unless I'm wrong, the clearance for the approach should imply landing or missed (and since not instructed otherwise, the published missed). Perhaps the airport being VFR at the time makes a difference? But of course, with KMRY, it can easily be CAVU VFR one minute and Low IFR the next.
Perplexed on this "unable" from NorCal.
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Re: IFR Currency for Levi - KMRY KWVI (Part 1)

Post by Rich »

I went back and checked my old home field (KPAE in the Seattle area) and see that they corrected a huge dumbness in the missed approaches to RWY 16R. Once upon a time they would take you West over the water to a fix a few miles out. Then someone got a wild hair and for years the missed had you turn around and essentially fly right back up the approach path. During that period, ATC would always give you a different missed instruction, usually vectoring you out to the West. Now I see they've amended all the approaches to the way they were lo those many years ago.

It would be interesting to know why they said "unable". I could speculate, but it would seem you should have been given an alternate missed.

On the subject of safety pilot, I've got a guy that's really good. Instrumented rated, long out of currency but he keeps abreast of the progress in the industry and is really good about keeping me informed about the situation with local VFR traffic as it develops in real time, so we communicate about dealing with it.
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Re: IFR Currency for Levi - KMRY KWVI (Part 1)

Post by waynemcc999 »

Rich, it does seem that a good share of approaches have some not-so-well thought out missed procedures, such that ATC a high percentage of the time provides an alternate missed... or maybe the published missed is well thought out for the case of Lost Coms, but isn't practical for normal ops.
As always, thanks for contributing to an interesting conversation,
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Re: IFR Currency for Levi - KMRY KWVI (Part 1)

Post by blsewardjr »

My cents re the "unable" on the missed was that when you declared your intent to do it, the controller considered you to be doing a practice approach (he uses those precise words) instead of actual IFR approach. If so, then I believe he can deny it. However, if you had not declared the intent and executed a missed he would have had to accommodate you.

Re the LNAV+V, on the GNS530/KAP140 in the DA40, we have to remember that final altitude is not a DH but an MDA. The AP will continue to fly you down the glidepath below the MDA so you have to arrest the descent. If you chose to use KAP140 altitude select to so this, it only works if you switch the AP from APR back to NAV before the MDA.

I was little surprised that you were handling all the comms. When I practice approaches I try to handle most, if not all, of the comms as well so that it's more realistic.
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Re: IFR Currency for Levi - KMRY KWVI (Part 1)

Post by waynemcc999 »

blsewardjr wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:18 pm My cents re the "unable" on the missed was that when you declared your intent to do it, the controller considered you to be doing a practice approach (he uses those precise words) instead of actual IFR approach. If so, then I believe he can deny it. However, if you had not declared the intent and executed a missed he would have had to accommodate you.

Re the LNAV+V, on the GNS530/KAP140 in the DA40, we have to remember that final altitude is not a DH but an MDA. The AP will continue to fly you down the glidepath below the MDA so you have to arrest the descent. If you chose to use KAP140 altitude select to so this, it only works if you switch the AP from APR back to NAV before the MDA.

I was little surprised that you were handling all the comms. When I practice approaches I try to handle most, if not all, of the comms as well so that it's more realistic.
Bernie, thanks! I think you're correct about the "unable" once I informed of intent to go missed.
Also good point (for any GPS/autopilot combo) that the LP (even with +V) is still an MDA, not a DH.
On the radio coms, Levi is a very current and proficient pilot... if he were to have been rusty, I agree, it would have been more useful for him to both fly and talk during the approach segments (and I could just do the traffic lookout part).
Thanks for watching!
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Re: IFR Currency for Levi - KMRY KWVI (Part 1)

Post by Rich »

blsewardjr wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:18 pm The AP will continue to fly you down the glidepath below the MDA so you have to arrest the descent.
Actually, it will gleefully take you all the way to a very bad landing if you let it :D
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Re: IFR Currency for Levi - KMRY KWVI (Part 1)

Post by Boatguy »

With a G1000 you can punch ALT at 20-30' above the MDA and the AP will hold the altitude while maintaining lateral guidance to the MPA. And of course while flying to the MPA you can use FLC or VS to start a climb to the missed altitude.

I think IFR approaches in VMC at non-towered airports is one of the scarier things in flying. The VFR planes are flying a pattern and the approach brings us straight in on final. The VFR pilots may well have no idea what we're talking about if we say we're 10 miles out on the RNAV XX. If we say we're on a 5mi final straight in, they wonder why we're barging into the pattern, don't know exactly how long it will take us to reach the runway and may ignore us. I've had planes turn base in front me while I'm on final more than once while practicing approaches. In one case the other plane had to make a hard right to avoid a midair.

Worst case we're trying to fly an approach against the current flow of traffic, like the ILS 13 while everyone else is landing, or doing touch and go's on 31.

My preference is to find a quieter towered airport. They may not have radar, but they will at least be talking with the other traffic, be alerted to our arrival by approach or center, and attempt to coordinate the local traffic. From KSBA, both KWJF and KMHV are both towered with multiple approaches and generally pretty sleepy.
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