Test Flying DA 42 NG next week - any tips for a DA 40 pilot

[Robin]

Hello

Have been very inspired by your twin experiences, and for expanding business reasons a DA 42 with ice protection would seem a good choice.

I have about 500 hours in my DA 40, and also have 150 hours twin time, and a MECIR - multiengine command instrument rating.

Flying the DA42 NG next week, I have read some of CFI Dave's tips, but any advice would be greatly appreciated for the test flight next week.

- The Austro FADEC engines literally start up just like a car -- just turn the key. No need to adjust throttle/mixture/prop. Of course you still have to play with backup electric fuel pump switches, toggle "voter" switches for the ECUs, and go through the automated runup process.

- During takeoff the acceleration down the runway and "kick in the pants" was stronger than that of a DA40, but nowhere the feeling you get in a Beech Baron (expected with almost twice the horsepower).

- Landing was even easier than than a DA40 or DA20 -- despite 10+ knot higher landing speeds -- because of the increased mass and stability. A crosswind landing was a non-event. The trailing-link main gear make touchdowns much softer.

- Handling is somewhat similar to a DA40/DA20, with the biggest difference being the much slower roll rate. With a DA40, adding aileron produces an almost instantaneous roll; with a DA42, you add aileron and then wait for the plane to respond.

- Probably due to its higher mass, the DA42 handles turbulence better than a DA40. Surprisingly the 42 doesn't yaw in turbulence like a DA40 despite its longer wing. Since our DA42 did not have the newer GFC-700 autopilot, it lacked a yaw damper, but it also didn't seem to need one.

- Losing an engine (simulated engine-out via power reduction) requires a LOT of rudder pressure to counteract yaw. But the plane otherwise seemed to fly quite well on one engine.

- Adjusting power levels is somewhat difficult since the small tape-like linear scales on the G1000 MFD left side (displaying power in percent) are hard to read. It would sure be nice if the MFD displayed round power "dials" for the engines like the DA40. OTOH, I didn't miss the need to adjust mixture and prop.

- The Austro engines do require you to waste a lot of time on the ground waiting for temps to come up or stabilize. For example, after startup you may need to wait 10 or more minutes for the oil and coolant temps to come up before taxi, even on a warm day. And you can't just shut down the engines after parking the plane; you need to run the engines at 10% for at least a minute.

Very exited about next week...my wife is also excited so she can add to the aviation equivalency fund!

Thanks

Robin

[Gnomad]

Awesome Robin! Hope you enjoy it!

Nothing major, but I'll toss in a couple things from memory of my training at the end of March.

First off, the preflight will be a bit different. More involved checking the retract gear and the engines. When you first throw the master on, don't let the sound startle you! It's just the hydraulic system pressurizing.

The instructor should hold your hand and walk you through/explain everything on the checklist.

Taxiing is a bit different, as you don't have the free nosewheel, takes a bit to get used to but nothing major. Sadly, no more standing 180s though.

As for flying, the first thing that caught me off guard, was the wings will become 'alive' during the takeoff roll. Definitely look for that! If you are just concentrating on rudder to stay on centerline, you might find you are dropping a wing.

Tap the brakes raise the gear!

Flying you will notice the slower roll rate right away, but better stability too. Lead with the rudder.
If you do some engine out work, at least for me, there was always room for more rudder! Leg can get tired and you might think it's all the way down when it isn't.

Emergency descents are a blast, ask to try it!

Lower the gear!

For some reason, I was able to hit my spots on landing from day one, something I don't always do in my 40. Probably something to do with not floating nearly as much if you aren't right on your speed. Don't be alarmed when you crush the front nose gear and think you broke something! Haha

Have a great time!

p.s. oh and at some point, either during engine start, or later make sure to take off your headset. You'll be amazed how much quieter it is than the 40.

[jon1746]

What he said. I have 100 hours in 8UB now and it has been a joy. If you think you are heading into a icing situation turn the system on early and let it run. I have marks on the side of the plane because I turn the TKS on late when entering icing conditions.

The plane is much better in turbulence.

It takes a bit to get used to getting in from behind the wing.

Its really hard to move the plane with out a tug.

Preflight is more complex, but the run up is much easier.

[Robin]

Thanks Jon and Eric

I am looking forward to the flight Thursday next week.

Will post a report.

Safe Flying

[CFIDave]

If you're transitioning from a DA40 to a DA42 NG model, be especially careful not to snag any body parts, shoes or clothing on the inboard wing vortex generators -- they're sharp! -- especially since you'll have to remind yourself to get on/off the BACK of the wing rather than the FRONT.

And to clarify the last point I made in my original post from six months ago (because the NG checklist changed):

Idle the engines BELOW 10% for at least one minute before engines shutdown to let the turbos spool down. If you taxi without too much power you'll already have satisfied this requirement.

And then after shutting down the engines, wait until you see red X's on the G1000 engine indicators -- or even better, wait 30 seconds -- before tuning the red electric master to OFF. This gives the Austro ECUs time to write operating parameters into memory. If you forget this, it's possible to create latched engine faults that have to be cleared with a PC with the Austro Wizard software/hardware (this was a problem with a rental DA42 NG with older software).

If you haven't already seen it, here's a link to Diamond's latest official checklist that applies to both NG and -VI models: http://www.diamond-air.at/2190+M57d0acf4f16.html

Have fun!

[GLDAS]

Pro tip: make sure to bring the levers back to idle before turning off the master. If you are idling at 10ish% power and shut off the engine, the prop will feather. BTDT. Looks cool and turbine like, though.
-Dan
Dan@greatlakesdiamond.com

[Robin]

Thanks Dave & Dan for the above posts

Just trying to get an idea of speeds...

Rotate Speed for the NG 80 KIAS

Best Rate of Climb 90 KIAS
Best Rate of Climb 85 KIAS - ONE ENGINE

VREF - flaps up 86 KIAS
Vref -flaps 83 KIAS

What speeds would you usually use

Downwind
Base
Long final

Thanks

Robin

[Robin]

Hello

The weather has been awful in SE Queensland, but fortunately the day dawned with clear skies, and the winds died down.

The following I found interesting...

1. Difficult to check the oil levels in the engine, not easy access
2. Need to a torch to check the gearbox oil
3. Need to remember to enter from the rear
3 a; the variable elevator stop check

4. The pedal adjustment was quite different - I much prefer the DA 40 XLS electric pedal adjustment
5. I am 6' 2" and with a David Clark Headset on there was no head clearance once the canopy was fully closed
6. Starting was really easy

7. Loved the ECU test to test the engines
8. Seemed very heavy on the take off run
9. As Eric said the wings are alive early, I guess due the prop was over the wings

10. Seemed slow to climb...maybe because we were given a VFR clearance towards rising terrain
11. Loved the rudder trim!!
12. Seemed stable through light chop

13. Very stable in steep turns - 45 to 60 degress
14. As Eric said, asymmetrics give you a good work out. Loved the ease of being able to feather by turning the engine master OFF
15. Once feathered the drop in drag was very noticeable, climbed quite nicely with the left critical engine shut down

16. Easy to restart - speed above 125 KIAS - then engine master on
17. Easy to pick up speed on descent, with gear up - needed to reduce power to 30%
18. Seemed stable on approach with 10-15 knot X wind

19. Eric you were right - thought I had broken the nose gear on a pretty smooth landing,despite the CFI saying to hold off for as long as possible
20. Idle on taxi in was enough to allow cooling to shutdown
21. Much cooler in my DA 40 with the storm window open, from the prop wash, much less air flow in the DA 42

Summary

Nice to have similar layout, but noticeably much heavier controls.
I thought that it would all be a lot faster and require more effort, but I felt that I was ahead of the aircraft at all times, perhaps the CFI would disagree!

Thanks

Robin

[CFIDave]

Robin:

Sounds like you flew an older Thielert-powered DA42 that had been converted to an NG with Austro engines.

The newer NG and -VI models tend to have the same larger bubble canopy and electric rudder pedals of your DA40 XLS.

Yes, you don't get as much air from the props with the canopy cracked open on the ground compared to a DA40, but you can fly a DA42 with the instrument panel air vents wide open without being drowned out in noise.

As I've gained experience with my new DA42, I've really become aware of a major difference compared to later-model DA40s: Austro-engine DA42s all seem to operate with CG right at the *FORWARD* limit, whereas the issue with the DA40 XLS (especially without the nose ballast installed) is often to keep the CG from exceeding the *AFT* CG limit. Austro-engined DA42 forward CG is made worse if the plane is equipped with TKS and the nose tank is full of fluid (9.2 lbs/gallon x 7.9 gallons)

The forward CG of the NG is why it takes a lot of stick force to rotate at takeoff, and why the plane wants to plop down on its nose gear after touchdown despite holding aft stick. This is made worse with 2 people in the front seats and no passengers or any luggage in the rear. When I gave a ride in our new plane to Eric the TKS tanks were full, so we actually flew with the CG forward of the forward limit (now I know better not to do this).

The "secret" is to partially empty the TKS tanks and/or add some weight to the rear baggage compartment. BTW, Thielert-powered DA42s don't have this issue.

Finally, I noticed that the "dash six" seems to climb better than other DA42 models (and especially compared to a DA40), perhaps because of the bigger props. I find myself smiling a lot when I notice the plane always climbs at more than 1000 fpm regardless of loading, temps, or altitude. :-D I have to be really careful where we fly to keep from busting the Class Bravo airspace shelfs (our airport lies underneath the Washington Dulles Bravo airspace).

[Gnomad]

Summary

Nice to have similar layout, but noticeably much heavier controls.
I thought that it would all be a lot faster and require more effort, but I felt that I was ahead of the aircraft at all times, perhaps the CFI would disagree!

Thanks

Robin

Glad you got a chance to fly the 42! Interesting reading your impressions. I had forgot about the difficult oil checks on the Austros! After a week, I got fairly comfortable checking the oil and getting the dipstick back in. Not the easiest thing tho! Gearbox is difficult no matter what. If I remember, on the Thielerts, that is on the outside of the cowling, wish it had stayed that way.

On the noticeably heavier controls, wait till you get back in your 40! I flew the 42 every day, 6 days straight, then when I got back in my 40, I thought I was in a sports car. Way more nimble for sure!

On the points about the rudder pedals and canopy, as Dave said, you were probably in an older NG conversion. Newer 42s have the bubble canopy and option for electric pedals. I didn't notice the lack of cooling from the vents, as I was flying mostly mornings off the California coast, but non-issue for me since I'll have AC in my -VI!

Dave, am curious...that AC is 90lbs in the tail, without that option it sounds like the forwaward CG would be a disaster with full TKS. How would it even be possible to fly without ballast in the back??

Oh, and on the speed thing, maybe your first flight and the terrain deceived you. My experience both in ME training in an NG conversion, and going for a ride with Dave is a much improved climb over the 40. In fact Dave's -VI was comparable to the Gen5 Cirrus I flew. Love cruise climb at 130kts!

Did you get try try an emergency decent?