DA40 on Dirt Strips

Any DA40 related topics

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rwtucker
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Re: DA40 on Dirt Strips

Post by rwtucker »

John,

Tell me if you can access this w/o being a member. Lots of good info. If you can't, I'll work on it for you.

https://idahoaviation.com/idahoAirstripNetwork.php
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johnu
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Re: DA40 on Dirt Strips

Post by johnu »

Great people down there. I agree on the never again thought though. Even the DA40 eats up a lot of runway in the summer in Albuquerque in the summer at 6000 feet elevation and 100 degrees OAT!
Last edited by johnu on Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DA40 on Dirt Strips

Post by johnu »

Robert,

I was able to access the link, but I am a member. BTW sorry for the last double post, not sure what I was doing!!
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jd4727
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Re: DA40 on Dirt Strips

Post by jd4727 »

Johnu,
Another Idahoan here...I see RWTucker provided some good advice. My guess is your DA-40 would do OK with Smiley Creek and Johnson Creek wheel wise here in Idaho. Both are long well maintained grass strips. Stanley airport which is mostly pavement, some gravel would probably work just fine. There are probably some others but those three come to mind. I still wouldn't do it.

I fly a 2004 Diamond Da-40 and a straight tail Cessna 182 with a P-Ponk engine (275hp). I have no desire to use the DA-40 off pavement or in the mountains in Idaho. The wheels on the DA-40 are very small, prop clearance is very low. My bigger concern is climb performance. The DA-40 is really anemic in climb at altitude. Add any wind, updraft/downdraft and canyons and it's dicey. I fly my DA-40 out of Boise and Sun Valley in the summer and some days getting to 11 or 12k feet is a struggle lightly loaded. I would hate to be in a canyon or even a large valley like the Stanley Basin where Smiley Creek is located in my DA-40 in the summer unless it was really cool out and the weather was very benign. Those long low wings and low loading are not an asset in backcountry flying. The underwing ram pitot tube on a DA-40 is ideally suited for a rock to knock it off on an unimproved strip.

Come out and fly with an experienced back country pilot in something better suited to it...happy to refer you to a number of well qualified folks if you PM me.
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Re: DA40 on Dirt Strips

Post by johnu »

John,

Thanks for tha advice. I am going to be in Idaho in August and having flown the DA40 in hot temps and high altitudes in New Mexico and Arizona the performance is always a concern when it comes to the DA 40. Overall it doesn't sound like the da40 is the right plane for this type of flying. I am also getting my tail wheel endorsement in a Glasair Sportsman which is a better choice from what am hearing.

I haven't done a lot of backcountry flying so I will be flying with the Recreation Aircraft Foundation people. I will have access to very experienced instructors and people familiar with the area. I appreciate the offer to help and as I get closer to August I may take you up on your offer for advice. Thanks.
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rwtucker
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Re: DA40 on Dirt Strips

Post by rwtucker »

jd4727 wrote:The DA-40 is really anemic in climb at altitude. Add any wind, updraft/downdraft and canyons and it's dicey.
John, It seems like we are all on the same page with guidance that the DA40 was not designed for back county but climb rate and above average susceptibility to wind is not on my list of the issues.

What configuration of prop and exhaust do you have? I have the MT prop and the tuned exhaust which is claimed to add from 18-22% HP within a narrow RPM range. I typically fly at 50% load and, with that, I can climb aggressively even at the > 9,500 DA that is not unusual on a hot August mid-day at MYL. I do notice an anemic rate of climb at full load high DA but no worse than the C182. As for downdrafts, I have never taken careful measurements but the DA40's wings seem either the same or a tad better than the typical short wing aircraft we all fly in the back country. For sure, the head banging jolts are softened considerably by the DA40's flexing wings when contrasted to my stiff metal wings. To date, I've had one real head bang in my DA40 and that was due to a stupid pilot (me) maneuver. I could not begin to count how many times I lost my headset in my 201T. Sometimes I had to confirm that the wings had not buckled, just to settle my nerves.

As I mentioned earlier, my reasons for keeping the DA40 on pavement go to design issues that take no account of rocks, gopher holes, etc. Too much important stuff, too close to the ground. :-D
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Re: DA40 on Dirt Strips

Post by jd4727 »

My DA-40 has the two blade hartzell propeller and standard exhaust. I flight plan cross country flights at 135kts but consistently see 140+. Yesterday was a good example... flight back from Las Vegas with a 5-9kt headwind and I consistently saw groundspeeds right at 143kts on the 3 hourish trip.

It sounds like the powerflow exhaust / MT or Hartzell prop combo has better climb performance than the standard model I fly. You know a lot of folks fly backcountry planes with tundra tires, etc... etc... on the IO-360 180-220 horse powerplant. I think the Scout and Husky both use that engine. The Carbon Cub does as well if . I wonder if their MTOW is a lot lower than the Diamond? Even with 18-22% extra climb performance I don't think I would feel comfortable climbing out of a high density altitude canyon with the DA-40 engine/airframe combo. Maybe I have just gotten spoiled with the P-Ponk/3 blade McCauley on this old C-182A airframe?

I concur with you on the low wings, lots of things hanging out there to scrape and bang on stuff problem of the DA-40's.
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Re: DA40 on Dirt Strips

Post by rwtucker »

That P-Ponk is an amazing engine. Sounds like the blades are breaking the sound barrier when you guys take off :!: :!:

I see a real sweet spot with the PowerFlo if you are willing to fly at 2450 or so.
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Re: DA40 on Dirt Strips

Post by jd4727 »

John,
If you are heading this way let me know. August sometimes has some cool (near freezing) and spectacular mornings in the back country. Great flying.

Robert...the P-Ponk just climbs... Sorry they are so noisy!

JD
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Re: DA40 on Dirt Strips

Post by johnu »

So, I have an early model DA40 serial 68. I have the Hartzell two blade prop standard exhaust, and the best speeds I see at 9500 ft are 127 TAS. I keep hearing others flying at 135 -140 TAS. Am I missing something or is my plane just slow!!!

I have a new engine with about 250 hours on it.

I will definitely be out that way in mid to late August. I went out with the same group last year in nw Montana and I kind of got the bug to learn and fly more in the back country. I got to fly in a 185 and a husky that others owned but let me fly with an instructor. One of the guys even had a Bonanza that he flew into the strips. It was stripped down but had impressive performance.

I will drop you a note when things get closer. In the meantime I am getting a lot of time on the Glasair sportsman which is a great plane. It has an io-390 in it and really has a lot of power even in the heat and altitude.

John U
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