The conundrum of ADS-B

[Rich]

Methinks I'll pull the trigger on this in some way. The question is how. One can get the value of ADS-B-in now pretty cheaply. But for me the most benefit derives from traffic, not weather. And for that to have a chance to work well implies getting ADS-B-out installed. Not terribly pricey, but not cheap, either.

The conundrum:

ADS-B-out mandated for 2020. Trying to get it installed in 2018/2019 is probably foolish, as lots of folks will be putting it off until then.
... On the other hand:
At the start of 2020 I'll be the unthinkable age of 73. Will I still be flying? Will I still be alive? (My family heritage suggests otherwise.)
... On the other hand:
Benefits accrue even now, especially for weather.
... On the other hand:
Right now the benefits are somewhat limited for traffic. This is because few have done the ADS-B-out install so far.

Ok, so I sound like Tevye

[Cschobel]

IF you have ADS out and in. I think you get most traffic. Those with ADS out and you will get traffic the ATC sees on radar. I think I am correct.??

[Rich]

IF you have ADS out and in. I think you get most traffic. Those with ADS out and you will get traffic the ATC sees on radar. I think I am correct.??

Not to be pedantic, but if you don't get an appropriate form of ADS-B in you won't get diddly. I am a bit fuzzy on which traffic you will see when in a radar environment with out/in. There's enough code-speak in the discussions that it obfuscates how this really works.

[Moonshine]

Charlie is right - you will most there is to get with an in and out.
If you just have an in, you will get all the air-to-air traffic (airliners, Embry-Riddle kids here in FL and other early adopters) and any traffic transmissions from the ground stations "excited" by passing aircraft (you need to be awfully close to those for it to be useful).
Now, if you are exciting the ground stations yourself with the GTX330ES or GDL88 or what have you, you'll get the air-to-air (almost real time update) as well as what the ATC is seeing from all the standard mode C and S transponders.
Works pretty cool actually.

[Gnomad]

I've been wondering, but haven't looked into it at all....

Can this be integrated to display traffic/weather on the G1000 or do we have to go with a standalone/portable device?

[CFIDave]

I'm still waiting for the ultimate solution to become available for our DA40 (would also apply to DA42):

ADS-B Out: Swap out our Garmin GTX33 for a GTX33ES transponder. With support for 1090 Extended Squitter, this will work internationally (and above 18,000 feet -- hey, I can dream, right?). Just go back into the G1000 equipment rack and swap LRUs -- about a 10 minute job. I'm still not sure if this is certified for Diamonds, or if our G1000 software must also be upgraded. Garmin announced a trade-in program that will let you do the swap for $1200 starting 4Q12. Because this will be such an easy (re)installation, I'm not too concerned about "beating the rush" to be ADS-B legal before 2020.

ADS-B In: Swap out our Avidyne TAS600 active traffic unit for a TAS600A model. That way we'll continue to directly pick up other traffic with transponders, while adding ADS-B traffic information. For the past 2-3 years Avidyne has promised the "A" version with ADS-B In, and announced a $2000 trade-in program for older 600-series units, but still hasn't shipped the new one. http://www.avidyne.com/landing/tas600-adsb.asp I'm guessing they may be delaying release to ensure it can directly receive both UAT and 1090 MHz ES frequencies, or maybe even adding ADS-B weather. But unless there are G1000 software issues, the installation should be trivial, since it's just a box swap that should re-use all the existing antennas and cables.

[Moonshine]

GDL88 is the box that integrates into G1000 very nicely

$4500 if the plane is WAAS, $5500 (includes its own separate WAAS receiver) if not
That's an in and out

[CFIDave]

GDL88 is the box that integrates into G1000 very nicely

$4500 if the plane is WAAS, $5500 (includes its own separate WAAS receiver) if not
That's an in and out

That's fine if you never want to fly outside the US, because the GDL88 only broadcasts ADS-B Out using UAT.

With the GDL88 the 1090 MHz Extended Squitter broadcasts required in every other country are missing. So I'd rather swap transponders to Garmin's GTX33ES model -- this works because our plane already has WAAS.

[Rich]

If I do it, the GDL-88 is where I'm inclined to go, especially since I have 530W/430W in the plane. I haven't put in a GTX330 because it's such a kludgy installation.

I haven't been able to determine whether Canada is planning to do anything more with ADS-B beyond what they've already done with the Hudson Bay area. That might require adding some facility for dealing with 1090 MHz. I guess I won't sweat it for now.

[Rick]

I have been waiting for Dave's solution, too, and hoping the TAS600A also supplies the weather info. But, I am pretty sure either solution (the GDL88, or the GTX33ES + TAS600A) will require new G1000 software, and that may end up being the deal breaker if Diamond doesn't get their act together soon and start providing us software updates again.

It also occurs to me that we may end up wanting all 3 modules - the GTX33ES to be ADS-B out legal, the TAS600A to get any kind of reasonable traffic info in the new world, and the GDL88 to get the ADS-B weather and other datalink information (replacing the GDL69 Sirius Wx link). I'm guessing this may all change again though over the next few years as more products (and players) emerge in this market.