Nano-structured anti-icing
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- carym
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Re: Nano-structured anti-icing
It will be interesting to see how all this shakes out. All I can say is that I am sure glad that I had TKS available for my windshield when I had to make an approach this weekend into KOSU and my windshield was full of ice from that trip. There is more to FIKI than simply leading edge protection !!
Cary
Cary
Cary
DA42.AC036 (returned)
S35 (1964 V-tail Bonanza)
Alaska adventure: http://mariashflying.tumblr.com
DA42.AC036 (returned)
S35 (1964 V-tail Bonanza)
Alaska adventure: http://mariashflying.tumblr.com
- Mats B
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Re: Nano-structured anti-icing
Hello, just want to say that I do think the TKS is doing a great job.
Did a flight for 35 minutes two weeks ago between ESSV and ESSP and a warm front was approacing from the west. I knew it would require some de-icing fluid so I checked more than once that the tank was full and the system was working before departure.
I was aiming to get up through the "stickiest" temperatures, -3C to -13C, as quick as possible only to end up on FL100 @ -12C and not possible to climb higher, due to no oxygen system.
Really on my wish list
On the descent I had to use the MAX-button quite frequently to keep the ice buildup to a minimum and the tank was draining pretty quickly.
Situation got better when I was down at 2100 feet and established on the ILS.
On short final I got the Low DeIce warning....
If I only could understand how to attach picture I could show you all the ice on spinners and nose. Must have been at least 1,5 cm..... Wings and propellers were clean.
Good job on the TKS!
Really like the DA42, really good plane for year-around operations.
Safe flying!
Best regards / Mats B
Did a flight for 35 minutes two weeks ago between ESSV and ESSP and a warm front was approacing from the west. I knew it would require some de-icing fluid so I checked more than once that the tank was full and the system was working before departure.
I was aiming to get up through the "stickiest" temperatures, -3C to -13C, as quick as possible only to end up on FL100 @ -12C and not possible to climb higher, due to no oxygen system.
Really on my wish list
On the descent I had to use the MAX-button quite frequently to keep the ice buildup to a minimum and the tank was draining pretty quickly.
Situation got better when I was down at 2100 feet and established on the ILS.
On short final I got the Low DeIce warning....
If I only could understand how to attach picture I could show you all the ice on spinners and nose. Must have been at least 1,5 cm..... Wings and propellers were clean.
Good job on the TKS!
Really like the DA42, really good plane for year-around operations.
Safe flying!
Best regards / Mats B
- Graham
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Re: Nano-structured anti-icing
One of the reasons I wouldn't go for a cessna 400 with the electrical de-ice is the lack of any windshield protection. Great that you are still flying, not so great you can't land. Living and flying in a high ice area, TKS is on the top of my list...one day.carym wrote:It will be interesting to see how all this shakes out. All I can say is that I am sure glad that I had TKS available for my windshield when I had to make an approach this weekend into KOSU and my windshield was full of ice from that trip. There is more to FIKI than simply leading edge protection !!
Cary
- Graham
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Re: Nano-structured anti-icing
Still more developments. It talks about metal airframes but it would be nice if one of these technologies makes it to market.
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Ne ... 841-1.html
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Ne ... 841-1.html
- Henrik
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Re: Nano-structured anti-icing
Reflecting on this, I'd argue that TKS & oxygen in many ways go together. Ie, an aircraft is not "really" FIKI unless it's also got oxygen capability.Mats B wrote:I was aiming to get up through the "stickiest" temperatures, -3C to -13C, as quick as possible only to end up on FL100 @ -12C and not possible to climb higher, due to no oxygen system.
TKS is mostly meant as an aid to bust through the icing layers (unless you're carrying enough to keep it on MAX for the entire trip), not stay permanently in them enroute.
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Re: Nano-structured anti-icing
I just did a search on the topic and found this patent application from Battelle.
The patent description makes a good summary of existing techniques including their drawbacks.
http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/d ... escription
It is in lawyer-talk, but still (barely) understandable. Except maybe for this excerpt which I really liked:
In some embodiments, solventless, preferably 100% solids, (free of organic and water solvent) suitable isocyanate compound or mixture of compounds can be used as the curing agent to form the protective layer. To function as an effective crosslinking agent, the isocyanate should have at least two reactive isocyanate groups. Suitable polyisocyanate crosslinking agents may contain aliphatically, cycloaliphatically, araliphatically and/or aromatically bound isocyanate groups. Mixtures of polyisocyanates are also suitable. Polyisocyanate conataining aliphatically, cycloaliphatically, araliphatically and/or aromatically bound polyisocyanate groups are also suitable. This includes, for example: hexamethylene trimethylhexamethylene diisocycante, meta-a,a,a',a'-tetramethylxylylenediisocyanate, l-isocyanato-3,3,5-trimethyl-5-isocyanatomethyl cyclohexane (isophoronoe diisocyanate or "IPDI"), bis (4 isocyanatocyclohexyl)methane (hydrogenate MDI), toluene diisocyanate ("TDI"), hexamethylene diisocyanate ("HDI") or biuret derivatives of various diisocyanates.
The patent description makes a good summary of existing techniques including their drawbacks.
http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/d ... escription
It is in lawyer-talk, but still (barely) understandable. Except maybe for this excerpt which I really liked:
In some embodiments, solventless, preferably 100% solids, (free of organic and water solvent) suitable isocyanate compound or mixture of compounds can be used as the curing agent to form the protective layer. To function as an effective crosslinking agent, the isocyanate should have at least two reactive isocyanate groups. Suitable polyisocyanate crosslinking agents may contain aliphatically, cycloaliphatically, araliphatically and/or aromatically bound isocyanate groups. Mixtures of polyisocyanates are also suitable. Polyisocyanate conataining aliphatically, cycloaliphatically, araliphatically and/or aromatically bound polyisocyanate groups are also suitable. This includes, for example: hexamethylene trimethylhexamethylene diisocycante, meta-a,a,a',a'-tetramethylxylylenediisocyanate, l-isocyanato-3,3,5-trimethyl-5-isocyanatomethyl cyclohexane (isophoronoe diisocyanate or "IPDI"), bis (4 isocyanatocyclohexyl)methane (hydrogenate MDI), toluene diisocyanate ("TDI"), hexamethylene diisocyanate ("HDI") or biuret derivatives of various diisocyanates.
- Aart
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Re: Nano-structured anti-icing
Thanks Antoine!
This TKS fluid is getting very expensive so I'm going to look if i can find my high-school era 'chemical box'. Should be a piece of cake to come up with that Battelle formula.
This TKS fluid is getting very expensive so I'm going to look if i can find my high-school era 'chemical box'. Should be a piece of cake to come up with that Battelle formula.
Aart
DA42.332 PH-CCD LESB (Palma de Mallorca, Spain)
DA42.332 PH-CCD LESB (Palma de Mallorca, Spain)
- curts63
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Re: Nano-structured anti-icing
Rustoleum makes the product. it retails for $20 for a kit, part A and part B more or less.
http://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalo ... verwet-kit
http://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalo ... verwet-kit
- Rich
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Re: Nano-structured anti-icing
It'll be interesting to see how this works. Something to consider:
Freezing rain is a condition where liquid raindrops fall upon sub-freezing surfaces and, of course, freezes. This is a mucho deadly situation for light planes. What many of us encounter is a deal where the moisture itself is already sub-freezing (aka super-cooled), but has not crystallized into ice, because it needs the stimulation to do so, be it finding a nucleus, or just that little disturbance that causes the crystals to, well, crystallize.
I've had occasion to fly in way-subfreezing temperatures in clouds where there is simply no risk of icing, because there is no liquid water (super-cooled or otherwise) around to make for ice deciding to accumulate on the airframe. (You Canucks know what I'm talking about, eh?) So will coatings like this work in supercooled liquid moisture situations or in freezing-rain scenarios, and for how long?
Freezing rain is a condition where liquid raindrops fall upon sub-freezing surfaces and, of course, freezes. This is a mucho deadly situation for light planes. What many of us encounter is a deal where the moisture itself is already sub-freezing (aka super-cooled), but has not crystallized into ice, because it needs the stimulation to do so, be it finding a nucleus, or just that little disturbance that causes the crystals to, well, crystallize.
I've had occasion to fly in way-subfreezing temperatures in clouds where there is simply no risk of icing, because there is no liquid water (super-cooled or otherwise) around to make for ice deciding to accumulate on the airframe. (You Canucks know what I'm talking about, eh?) So will coatings like this work in supercooled liquid moisture situations or in freezing-rain scenarios, and for how long?
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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Re: Nano-structured anti-icing
I think the key question here is what happens to NeverWet when exposed to a spray of rain at 75 m/s (150 KTAS) for several minutes.curts63 wrote:Rustoleum makes the product. it retails for $20 for a kit, part A and part B more or less.
http://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalo ... verwet-kit